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Fiorente At Stud |
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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And just for you Djebel, Alesandro has Riverman in his dam.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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Alessandro that is. Also has another dose of Never Bend-ie. two instances of Never Bend in his dam.
My point being that there would be a lot less horses with Riverman in the dam side or even Never Bend than having Bahram or Persian Gulf in the dam side and the percentage of winners and stakeswinners would be much higher with Riverman/Never bend when crossed with Fiorente.
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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HH88
Weanling Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Crikey you blokes are tough.
On the site for no time at all and have already been accused of: (1) Being a Nationalist. (2) Being a plagiarist. (3) And now given to exaggeration. Trend Oxford English Dictionary (Noun) A general direction in which something is developing. So if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a trend - and no inverted commas required.
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HH88
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kavg
Champion Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3993 |
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Take it easy H.
My point is that there are a lot of dams that have got bahram in their pedigree. Statistical analysis is needed to see if it is a trend or an aberration. More to the point as I have stated a couple of times, more time is needed to sort oout whether these 3yo's and the younger ones are any good. At this stage only Stars of carrum has put his hand up but he still has to come up as an autumn 3yo. Alessandro is showing some promise and all the others still have to step up. But there maybe a better trend with Riverman or Never bend that are present in a lot fewer broodmares. Again what I am suggesting is a trend that I have noticed but it needs to also stand up to statistical analysis. This is a forum for ideas and discussions to hopefully help people make a better or more informed decision. |
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Prejudice is an emotional attachment to ignorance.
DiEM25 for the world. |
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GAJ
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Location: Alstonville,NSW Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
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I am the new owner of a Fiorente colt and his dam Calaxna (Linamix) an Irish bred mare full sister to the Irish Stallion and stakes winner Carlotamix.
They will arrive sometime this month, looking like they have come from a drought area in Victoria, they will certainly pick up here in the Northern Rivers of NSW. I am interested in the forumites thoughts of this mating?
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Which trainer could do such a colt justice ?
None off the top of my head. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Clare Cunningham
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reductio ad absurdum
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41480 |
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I am not a pedigree buff, like some of the real experts here. I am just saying OOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Secretariat on the dam side , love it already
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animals before people.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45733 |
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Gaj herself has a history of producing staying winners from modest stock, so this youngster should get every chance.
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45733 |
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Carlaxna's dam was a Listed winner over 9 furlongs and has produced a Gp 1 winner over 1600m.
Reckon you might be on a winner with this colt Gaj.
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GAJ
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Location: Alstonville,NSW Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
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Thank you Second Chance, you are very kind, I will be doing my best that's for sure. Slowly improving our stock as we go along.
Acacia Thank you, Secretariat always a favourite..
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41480 |
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Good Luck with this horse. I will be following, thats for sure
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animals before people.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Reading other threads I got the impression Gaj might be a trainer. Good luck Gaj. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41480 |
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What rock have you been living under Djebel ???
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animals before people.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Ayres ? |
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reductio ad absurdum
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HH88
Weanling Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Thanks for the response.
The essential point about his winners with Bahram in the dam line is those presences are female strains or daughters of Bahram (ie to balance Fiorentes male strain) For pedigree analysts clues like this are gold when trying to work out what mares will best suit a particular stallion. Stars of Carrum franks the Bahram clue perfectly by bringing that line forward one generation, importantly again, through an opposite strain and for good measure reinforcing it by adding the full sister. Fiorentes other winners have only just cleared Maiden ranks and it may well transpire a line of Bahram on its own is not strong enough to enable them to significantly progress. Stallions often have more than one line they are strongest too, so Bahram does not own it exclusively. Time, more winners and further analysis will tell. However casting the net a bit wider provides a little more substance to the argument. Here in NZ we have Vadamos (Monsun out of Celebre Vadala) standing his second season at Rich Hill Stud. He is 5m x 8f to Persian Gulf. Another of Monsuns sire sons is Manduro. He is 3m x 4m to Dschingis Khan who is by Tamerlane, in turn by Persian Gulf. One of his best sons is Vazirabad - 23 starts, 15 wins, 6 places and $3,381,774. He is 6m x 7m x 7f to Persian Gulf. Charity Line one of his fillies - 7 starts for 6 wins is 5m x 6m x 7f to Tamerlane In the interests of balance there are other good racers sired by Monsun who do not have presences of Bahram/Persian Gulf/Tamerlane in the dam line. What is required now is to work out what those lines are. Nature hides her secrets well.
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HH88
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HH88
Weanling Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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The old saying goes no owner of an unraced 2yo ever committed suicide and you may have cause for some optimism here.
Linamix is the second damsire of Vadamos - 20 starts, 8 wins, 5 places $1,233,006. He is also the sire of the dam of Vazirabad - 23 starts, 15 wins, 6 places $3,381,774. Linamix's fourth dam is by Persian Gulf. Your colt is 6m x 7f Persian Gulf. Best of luck.
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HH88
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GAJ
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Location: Alstonville,NSW Status: Offline Points: 4410 |
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Thank you HH88, Apart from Manighar I was not familiar with Linamix as a stallion, when I saw the mare's page I looked into him and noted he was France's leading Brood mare sire in 2012, among other things she was very desirable to me especially with the bonus of a colt by Fiorente.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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Fun Fact: The mare of the moment - that being the recently rescued half sister to Mr Stunning (Go The Cats - Purrealist x With Fervour) ticks many of the boxes that would test this Bahram theory.
The great Eau de Toile line carries Doubleton through her grandson Jekyll, who is the sire of Eau de Toile's 2nd dam. So, the daughters of Filante, Kenny's Best Pal, Redente, Benicio and Purrealist would be some chance - and not so expensive to test.... though it would ave to be one dominant gene. With Fervour's 2nd dam is by Saros, who is of the Precipitation sireline and, more to the point, is a great great grandson of Persian Gulf through his 3rd dam, Margaret Ann. Now, that's one lucky cat.
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Hopefully HAWKSHOT can be Fiorente’s first G1 winner in the Aust Guineas in a few weeks time.
And there’s definately a nice race in STARS OF CARRUM too, maybe Autumn Classic &/or Alister Clark Stks. Love to see a few more Fiorentes emerge as late 3yo’s. |
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21821 |
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I'm pretty sure I saw one down the line recently winning, very impressive too, could be busustin's though not sure .
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Lord Hybrow
Champion Joined: 05 Jul 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
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Let us all know the name when it comes to you Carioca. I think another Fiorente 3yo in ALESSANDRO (Robbie Griffiths) is due back shortly too with an aim at the VRC St Leger & SA Derby double as the targets. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51995 |
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R & S has extensive records of all stallions using the search on the Home page. You may need to sign up tho', not sure but it is free I've just seen the stats but on linking/Preview it says Maintenance so may or may not work |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Carioca
Champion Joined: 13 Nov 2015 Status: Offline Points: 21821 |
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Fairly sure it was Stephen Browns youngster by Americain winning , apologies Lord Hybrow, however will keep looking fwiw. |
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HH88
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Lunar Flare won at the Valley on Friday, and like Hawkshot out of an Encosta mare.
Of interest here Hawkshot has no balanced line breeding to Bahram / Persian Gulf and may be showing us another way of selecting suitable mares here. Best of luck to the connections of Hawkshot, and Stars of Carrum following his brave run in the Derby. To advance the discussion it would be useful if someone could advise how to post the relevant pedigree sheets (as per the Stars of Carrum earlier in the thread) without paying Photobucket for the privilege? Drag and drop doesn't work on this site and no luck either with the twitter suggestion.
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HH88
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Shrunk in the Wash
Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 9890 |
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Djebel may be able to postiy
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Online Points: 45733 |
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And another winner at Hobart is also out of an Encosta mare.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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Little Phoenix went alright on debut at Sandown over 1400. Didn’t win, but was still coming at the line after a less than economical run to finish 4th less than a length.
He’s a gelded son of Fiammarosa, who is also Hawkshot’s 2nd dam. The key mare might be Saving? |
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HH88
Weanling Joined: 16 Oct 2018 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Time will tell, but likely the EDL component of Hawkshot's pedigree will prove more influential.
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HH88
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Gee Gee
Champion Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Status: Offline Points: 8300 |
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Hawkshot's full brother POWER SCHEME is one to watch.
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