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Chautauqua |
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Online Points: 11368 |
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The managing partner needs only to advise all shareholders of the current situation, provide a list of options and request stakeholders to vote on the course of action. Or just wait,and let the stewards decide for them........ |
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Baguette
Champion Joined: 18 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3651 |
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7496 |
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You can’t deduce that he doesn’t want to race - he doesn’t want to jump from the barriers which would hardly be the same thing in his mind. If he didn’t want to race he’d turn it up in his gallops. Is he doing that?
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to the victor
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Maybe he just wants to have a Stawell Gift like experience and is giving everything else a head start
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Einstein
Champion Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Status: Offline Points: 1290 |
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Not the same at all. A horse can love to gallop but not want to race.
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Balciano
Champion Joined: 09 Nov 2016 Status: Offline Points: 863 |
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I could understand the connections persevering if it was the Chautauqua of old, from his 4 and 5 year old days. But we're talking about an 8 year old who has only the 1 win and 3 placings from his 10 starts since returning from Hong Kong in 2016. His record on Good/Soft tracks during this period - 7:0-0-1.
I don't know nearly enough about horses to know why he's not jumping. But I do know the horse has nothing left to prove. Why not retire him while he's still sound? He clearly doesn't owe them anything. |
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crooked_gambler
Champion Joined: 27 Jan 2015 Status: Offline Points: 4676 |
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RacingNSW have banned him from being nominated in trials and races subject to a submission being made by owners as to why it should be lifted
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Dizzy
Premium Joined: 17 Sep 2013 Location: Canberra Status: Offline Points: 16852 |
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From Racing NSW - 7th August
Racing NSW Stewards have communicated with trainer Mr John Hawkes about plans for Chautauqua following the gelding's failure to jump from the barriers at Rosehill Gardens today. Mr Hawkes advised no firm decision has been made regarding the future of Chautauqua and a decision will not be made for the next 7 days to allow some of the connections to return from overseas. Mr Hawkes was advised that should he continue to attempt to race the gelding, Stewards would require submissions from connections outlining why Chautauqua’s nominations for barrier trials and race meetings should not be refused. |
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TJMitchell
Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 16915 |
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Dear Racing NSW,
I am rich (read important). You need to treat me better, as is the industry standard. Yours sincerely, R. Legh
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7496 |
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How they think is probably different to every individual- what they consider racing, competing - is it going at their fastest? Is it passing other runners? Does it include barriers? They’re quite cluey about whether it’s just trackwork or trials, or raceday. One of ours decided he wanted to be lengths slow after a poorly educated runner kicked him under the barriers, not only would he come out slowly after everyone was gone but he didn’t want to run anywhere near them. Chat seems to have a long memory about having a rope looped around his legs at Moonee Valley when he got scratched - in my opinion. |
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to the victor
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31400 |
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Monty's got tickets on himself- 100k- how much of his time does that get you?
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anabel
Champion Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Location: VIC Status: Offline Points: 1521 |
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Lol probably worth it if it comes with a money-back guarantee |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31400 |
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Has he passed on his magic to anyone or is he going to the grave with it? Surely there must be someone in Australia who knows Monty's tricks and will work a lot cheaper. I'd be surprised if Chaut's team haven't already tried. Here we go- books, dvd's, tours, classes- the whole shebang.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51987 |
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He goes in, stands quietly & comes out the front tho' after the others are well gone. Since the Valley incident he's also trialled successfully so how do you think he's relating ropes to not jumping in company? Bearing in mind animals work within the bounds of action/reaction.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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linghi11
Champion Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 7496 |
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Horses are not always rational - you could probably combine Moonee Valley with something else at a later date to create this situation. Does anyone know how he’s galloping at home and if he works with mates without too much trouble? |
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to the victor
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51987 |
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squibby should be able to answer that linghi tho' a quick 400m is rather meaningless to me.
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41427 |
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LOL, I am loving it. Seeing this big grey horse beat the best of the best humans in the training buisness. See him in the barriers ?? Ears working over time,,,looking around. Then. Naaaaaah, not doing it. Why should I ??? He is a hoot. |
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animals before people.
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skippy123
Champion Joined: 07 Dec 2015 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1526 |
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I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned (I can’t catch up
on the endless conspiracy theories about the Grey Flash) but Rupert has been overseas with his family (and possibly still is?) which may explain no pressing decision making |
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skippy123
Champion Joined: 07 Dec 2015 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1526 |
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Also to those that believe the owners are ‘flogging a dead horse’ that is obviously injured etc etc that is being surmised on the forum, how bout you look up Rupert’s son Chris (in particular his 1997 Hawaiian Ironman finish- it’s brutal viewing) then tell me Rupert Legh doesn’t know the consequences of athletes pushing themselves.
Bottom line: there is NO way he would try and persevere if there were something wrong with the horse |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41427 |
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I did hear someone say yesterday that they were just waiting for owners to return from overseas before making any more decisions.
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animals before people.
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troppo75
Champion Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1438 |
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Exactly, no rushed / rash decisions need be made.
The horse has a quirk. It can be fixed. Its a muscle trigger memory. He is simply jarring up when the gates crash open. Could be a sound issue.. maybe ear muffs.. could just be he's way too quirky in the head.. definitely not because he's injured or past it... he might be getting on in years but his old legs can still rattle along just nicely as shown in his 'failed' trial.. If they retire him it's wise.. he's been a good horse to them, its not that the owners would want to see him suffer.. its purely a mind issue with him.. Im sure team Hawkes have tried every trick they know.. every different jockey.. he's just... cagey... just like John lol
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Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Bonjour
Champion Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8402 |
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It's wise to retire him....let's leave it at that?
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51987 |
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https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/evj.12392 I guess we must believe that all these 'statistics' were deemed 100% sound prior to their demise too Reasons for performing studyIf equine conditions with high likelihood of jockey injury can be determined and subsequently prevented, jockey safety can be enhanced. ObjectivesTo identify racehorse injuries or conditions with greatest risk for jockey falls and injuries. Study designRetrospective correlation of race‐day jockey fall and injury data with racehorse fatality data. MethodsThoroughbred (TB) and Quarter Horse (QH) racehorse cause of death and jockey fall and injury data for California flat races were reviewed for a 6‐year period. Race and jockey race ride population data were used to determine jockey fall and injury incidence rates relative to cause of racehorse death, and were assessed using Poisson regression. Differences in proportions were assessed using Fisher's exact, Pearson's χ2, and Cochran–Mantel–Haenszel tests. Results707 racehorses experienced race‐related catastrophic injury or sudden death. 199 jockeys had 601 falls with 325 injuries. Jockeys were 162 times more likely to fall (95% confidence interval 137–192; P<0.001) and 171 times more likely to be injured (95% confidence interval 140–208; P<0.001) when they rode a horse that died in a race. We infer that jockeys were more likely to fall or be injured when riding in QH races than in TB races because of a higher incidence of horse fatalities in QH races. Jockey falls occurred with 24% of TB and 36% of QH race‐related horse fatalities, and jockey injury occurred in 64% of falls. Jockey falls were most common with TB fetlock injuries and QH carpal, metacarpal and fetlock injuries; and with axial, bilateral and multiple injuries compared with appendicular, unilateral and singular injuries, respectively. ConclusionsPrevention of the most common catastrophic injuries and conditions of the racehorse,
e.g. fetlock injuries, may be most effective at decreasing rates of falls and injuries
to horseracing jockeys during racing. And these? For a one year period from 1 August 2016 to 31 July 2017, the Coalition for the Protection of Racehorses has collected data from the stewards reports from every state and territory in Australia, compiling a detailed report of the horses who have died in racing and the reasons why – something that is not made available to the public each year to the public by the industry itself. Key Findings
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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crooked_gambler
Champion Joined: 27 Jan 2015 Status: Offline Points: 4676 |
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Have they ever used a blind fold and/or barrier blanket on him?
Seemed to work okay for Black Caviar and Winx |
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sparticus
Champion Joined: 13 Apr 2013 Status: Offline Points: 738 |
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His problem isn't going IN to the barrier, its going OUT of it |
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crooked_gambler
Champion Joined: 27 Jan 2015 Status: Offline Points: 4676 |
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Yes aware of that. But sometimes you can trick them with gear so that they don’t know they are in the barriers |
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Horse whisperer’s impassioned plea to Chautauqua’s ownersThe man dubbed the horse whisperer, equine behaviour specialist Monty Roberts, has made an impassioned plea to the connections of Chautauqua to give him the chance to “cap” his career by getting the crestfallen star racing again. The grey gelding is not permitted to race having failed to jump from the barriers in several trials and is running out of chances in the eyes of the stewards. Chautauqua is trained by John Hawkes in partnership with his sons Wayne and Michael, who have reportedly enjoyed some encouraging signs in the past seven days with the eight-year-old’s manners. The owners, headed by Rupert Legh, have made submissions to the stewards to keep the door open. Further failures to jump away are guaranteed to lead to nominations being rejected. Speaking from the US on the weekend, Roberts told The Australian he had been in limbo, waiting for a call in the middle of last week from Legh to green light a trip down under. He has been in discussions for a month and is “sad, not angry” that Chautauqua is not getting the best help. “I can’t give you the answer from 13,000km away without a personal connection to the horse and see what his answers are,” Roberts said. “I have more opportunity to help this horse more than anybody on the face of the earth. “I am dying to do this horse, come and help him. This is a champion. I’m 83. What better way to cap my career. Why wouldn’t I want to help? “I can’t guarantee I have the answer. The horse has the final answer and I haven’t met the horse. I just need a chance.” Roberts came to Sydney five years ago to sort out the issues of a horse called Carlton House, raced by the Queen and trained at the time by Gai Waterhouse. His philosophy is simple. “Cause it to be something it wants to do. Not something it has to do,” he said. Roberts spoke with Legh about a month ago. Legh has since spoken to Roberts’ eldest daughter Debbie, who handles the arrangements, between six and 10 times. “Part of me wants to say forget it. The whole group is not being fair with me, but I then think about the horse. I am not upset with anybody about this. I am sad,” Roberts said. “Every day they try something their way it increases the potential for a problem that I can’t solve. Every day they take away from me increases my chances of failure.” Roberts needs to know before the weekend if his experience is to be called on. He can find five days to spend with Chautauqua, but may need as little as 48 hours to turn the horse around. “They’ve got me with my back to the wall. I have commitments that I have to live up to,” Roberts said. “All the owners are being loyal to John Hawkes and every trainer wants their owners to be loyal, but he’s tried his things.” Legh said it is a case of taking small steps at this stage. “We’re working towards an end result with the horse and we’re in contact with Monty, but at the moment we haven’t employed his services,” Legh said. “We’re not saying we won’t. It’s a decision we’ll make later in his preparation and we’re hopeful we won’t need to.” Speaking on radio yesterday, Wayne Hawkes said Legh was in discussions with Racing NSW chairman of stewards Marc Van Gestel. “The biggest thing with him (Chautauqua) is he isn’t hurting anybody. Everyone’s doing their best and having a crack. The only one left is Monty, but I’m not sure that even he’s that good,” Hawkes said. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Ho hum. They said on PPM this morning that Chau had jumped properly 2 or 3 times recently in private. Definitely jumped today with two others prior to official trials.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Why Hawkes and connections are not asking Racing Authorities and Stewards for permission to trial him between races is beyond me. Give him the chance on raceday with the adrenaline that comes with parading, to see if he jumps officially.
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reductio ad absurdum
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skippy123
Champion Joined: 07 Dec 2015 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 1526 |
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Again- Rupert has been on an extended overseas holiday with his family until recently - I don’t think there have been any games played on his behalf
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