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Inbreeding to Danehill |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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Still got the More than Ready/Flying Spur thing going only in reverse.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Skating, What a great matriarch.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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Champagne Stakes winner, The Mission is another one for the 'second pattern' file... but which one is the second?
He can't be the first foal bred on the Choisir/Redoute's Choice cross (surely?). So, if the reflective patterns in Great Selection and Canny Lad aren't the key, is it as simple as Danehill on top with MTR in the bottom half? Thus making the Great Selection/Canny Lad nick the 'second pattern' and the Danehill duplication an added bonus? Fair dinkum, the should've called him Nan's Veggie Soup. Everything in the pot, no idea which flavour is which. |
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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The free wiki-style info at Pedigreequery shows a grand total of three runners, The Mission included, from (at a guess) 10 years worth of opportunity. There must be more. |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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Well Choisir and Redoute's Choice are very close in genetic make up. They have more than just the Danehill cross. He is the first winner from 8 foals and 6 starters from 6 different mares - according to equineline.
It could be that there are no other close crosses other than the Danehill 3 x 3. Some of the others may have had other lines of Biscay or Lunchtime or even more Danehill blood. This is close to close Danehill/Lunchtime/Biscay (the big three) in both but Lunchtime and Biscay are off in the 6th line in the mare My Amelia. If you had say a second dam by Snippets or Canny Lad (and alot of Canny Lad mares went to Redoute's Choice) you would have a far busier pedigree and that could create troubles.
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slowdown
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2009 Location: Tasmania Status: Offline Points: 8647 |
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Unlikely Pin Up Boy
Tara Madgwick - Thursday, 20 April 2017 When Guelph won the Group I ATC Champagne Stakes in 2013, horses bred with a double cross of legendary sire Danehill had found their pin-up girl, but it's taken four more years for a pin-up boy to emerge.
The Mission By Choisir from a daughter of Redoute's Choice, The Mission is the fourth Group I winner to carry the double cross and is only the second in Australia after Guelph. Current statistics for the double Danehill courtesy of Arion show 46.7% winners to runners (1221 winners from 2614 starters) with 57 stakes-winners. Among those stakes-winners are current season two year-olds Gunnison, Single Bullet, Debellatio, Ducimus, Pateena Arena, Seannie and of course The Mission. The Mission is an interesting pin-up boy for a number of reasons starting with his pedigree. Choisir In his favour may well be Choisir. When you run a report for the double Danehill cross, but look at only those involving Choisir the statistics improve markedly. We find 51.3 % winners to runners with eight stakes-winners making for 4% stakes-winners to runners which is double what we find when just looking at the straight double Danehill. Another factor making The Mission a somewhat unexpected star is his purchase price and yearling picture, neither would suggest star in the making! The Mission as a yearling - a work in progress As you can see in his yearling picture, The Mission was a work in progress and it's a credit to Paul Perry that he saw the diamond in the rough. Young thoroughbreds go through growth spurts at various stages of their development and it's fair to day The Mission was not seen at his best last January. Given his pedigree (the iffy double Danehill) and his type (work in progress), it's no wonder that this Group I winner was picked up cheaply and has now won over $400,000. |
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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Two of those Choisir SWs mentioned above are Luger & Psychologist, out of the Danzero mare Miss Conception.
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Swynford
Weanling Joined: 14 Jan 2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 5027 |
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Are there any stats to say this duplication works or not ? Colts Or fillies
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Online Points: 52012 |
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This discussion will help, in particular this post & haven't read further:
The report on inbreeding to Danehill (foaled in 1986) reads like this.
Danehill as a stallion SW to runners = 16.7% Danehill inbreeding -SW to named foals= 1.4% Danehill inbreeding -SW to runners = 2.2% Savabeel (leading NZ sire) SW to runners= 9.4% Street Cry (leading Aus sire) SW to runners= 8.0% My theory on nicks is that a certain type of stallion ( horse size and shape, speed, balance, lung capacity, ability) compliment a certain type of mare (horse size and shape, speed, balance, lung capacity, ability). Breed an athlete. http://racecafe.co.nz/forums/index.php?/topic/49785-inbreeding-to-danehill/ |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Online Points: 52012 |
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And this from our own Swynford, shows there's much more too it than simply double Danehill!
http://championsbydesign.com.au/consultancy-services/ |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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It's way to early to say it works or it doesn't.
First we have to look at the grandsons Stratum has stakes winners Southern Lord and Battle Hero Choisir has The Mission and Psychologist Sebring has Scratchy Bottom, Kiss a Rose, Broadband, Ulmann, Seannie Not a Single Doubt has Selenia, Single Bullet, Gunnison Snitzel has Sweet Redemption Smart Missile has Debellatio Star Witness has Mella Maria G2 in South Africa and Pearl Star Teofilo has Brazuca G2 in South Africa, Paene Magnus, Loritania etc. Sepoy has the best with Alizee While Danehill's son Exceed and Excel had the great filly Guelph interestingly from the same female line as Sepoy sire of the other best on in Alizee. Now is that close cross working because of some affinity of the female line to Danehill? Or do we blame Danehill for the class. There is no way of being sure. The above figure of inbreeding to Danehil of 1.4% would be over many lines including ones where close inbreeding wouldn't work. So we are only with the grandsons even getting to the third generation of for inbreeding so some of the above were very closely possibly 2 x 2. Something which is obviously not working. For every Guelph 2 x 3 to Danehill you will get 100 that wouldn't work. 3 x 3 is more reasonable. 4 x 4 is better. |
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slowdown
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2009 Location: Tasmania Status: Offline Points: 8647 |
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from memory last I read was that the sexbalanced Danehill cross was working best. are there any updates since ? Cheers Slowdown
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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rem286
Champion Joined: 17 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 767 |
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Sex balanced still appears to go ok. I think 3M x 3M is the one that was looking bad although you still see them sell ok. I think once you get back to 4th generation its ok.
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slowdown
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2009 Location: Tasmania Status: Offline Points: 8647 |
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Cheers Rem...…..
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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slowdown
Champion Joined: 24 Jun 2009 Location: Tasmania Status: Offline Points: 8647 |
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Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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