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Inbreeding to Danehill

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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 4:29pm
If I was looking at sending a mare to Snitzel, part of the equation would be finding one with Grey Sovereign on the mares male line lower in the pedigree.

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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 3:30pm
Winner of the Group Three Widden Stakes at Flemington today

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furious View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:05pm
That was a hard run she had Swynford.  Thought for sure she collapse.  Maybe the others aren't worth much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:12pm
Lot of strength down the bottom furious, Hermes, Sabaean, Blue Peter. just thinking out loud .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:26pm
Yep but only a little thing and had to be hunted early.  Usually that ends them off and she fought on particularly well so wonder about what she beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 4:30pm
It's probably worth mentioning that Patronella has also produced two stakes-winners to Geiger Counter where there's no Danehill or Grey Sovereign.
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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:25pm
Patronella is also the dam of Aliyana Tide, a full sister to Teaspoon.    Correct me if I am wrong but considering Snitzel leaves a Group winner once in every 23 runners then the mare definitely has something he likes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:33pm
Could account for Teaspoon running on.  Aliyana Tide could go over a distance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by .Swynford. .Swynford. wrote:

Patronella is also the dam of Aliyana Tide, a full sister to Teaspoon.    Correct me if I am wrong but considering Snitzel leaves a Group winner once in every 23 runners then the mare definitely has something he likes.

Ability to produce you'd think, now that she's produced four stakes-winners from two such diverse stallions.

Interestingly Smytzer's Twist has also produced a stakes-winner by Redoute's Choice, so that makes three with Redoute's in the immediate sire line
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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 6:01pm
I agree furious . 

 Its just a hunch I have that Snitzel (or more to the point Snippets ) might like mares with Grey Sovereign on their male line.  Hinchinbrook may also.  

This horse below by a different stallion but another with the pattern and one of the best from his sire Came off just a $500 service fee at the time.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 6:09pm
Well nothing wrong with Grey Sovereign/Star Kingdom cross which you get in both Redoute's and Snitzel.
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.Swynford. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 7:55pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 8:29pm
Thats the Lady Chester female line Swyford.  Still firing strong.
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ianb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 9:57pm
I bred a winner today at the Gold Coast in Son of Justice
Court Command (Commands, Danehill). Out of Come to Thee x Lion Hunter (Danehill)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 10:00pm
Well done Ianb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 9:11am
Good stuff Ian , do you still breed your own ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 11:22am
Congrats Ian. always great when you have bred them
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 11:55am
Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 6:51pm
congrats Ian......  pedigree of Son Of Justice

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Swynford. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 6:57pm
Pedigree of Karaka Million winner

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ianb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2017 at 8:08pm
Yeah I try .....it's a hard expensive game, but we turn up each and every year trying to breed more winners.

We retired Come to Thee last year and gave her to a neighbour to be a grass eater, she has a Mahisara filly that is a fairly immature horse, which is a lot different from most of his stock.
I borrowed a Danzero mare and have a filly out of her, I was given a NASD filly that didn't cycle last year and have decided to keep her for another year, her half by I am Invincible made $220,000 at Magics and I have another Court Command mare Darth Traya that will breed this season. We brought a well bred Haradasun filly that also decided to be barren, so will front up again and finance the vets world travels (hahaha) Plus old DiamondsnPearls, she has the best yearling I have ever bred selling at QTIS sale and a colt foal at foot that is spectacular.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 6:03am

Six x Six Enhanced Pedigree Grid for

PATEENA ARENA (AUS) 2014 Bay filly
by Needs Further - Gehenna, by Ladoni

 


NEEDS FURTHER (AUS)
B. 2007
GW 3 wins
f:22 r:6 w:2 SW:1
Encosta de Lago
B. 1993
GW 3 wins
f:1900 r:1610 w:1135 SW:112
Fairy King
B. 1982
NP
f:799 r:590 w:400 SW:73
1Northern DancerNearcticNearco4
Lady Angela14
NatalmaNative Dancer5
Almahmoud2
3Fairy BridgeBold ReasonHail To Reason4
Lalun19
SpecialForli3
Thong5
Shoal Creek
Ch. 1988
Wnr 2 wins
f:5 r:4 w:2 SW:1
Star WayStar AppealAppiani4
Sterna5
New WayKlairon1
New Move6
RollsMr. ProspectorRaise A Native8
Gold Digger13
Grand LuxeSir Ivor8
Fanfreluche4
Crowned Glory
B. 1997
GW 2 wins
f:8 r:7 w:7 SW:2
Danehill
B. 1986
GW 4 wins
f:2414 r:2082 w:1630 SW:347
Danzig1Northern DancerNearctic14
Natalma2
Pas de NomAdmiral's Voyage4
Petitioner7
Razyana5His MajestyRibot4
Flower Bowl4
1Spring AdieuBuckpasser1
Natalma2
Significant Moment
B. 1990
Pld
f:10 r:9 w:6 SW:1
BletchinglyBiscayStar Kingdom1
Magic Symbol2
CoogeeRelic8
Last Judgement7
Lady Giselle3Nureyev1Northern Dancer2
Special5
ValdernaVal de Loir5
Derna16
GEHENNA (AUS)
B. 2000
SW 5 wins
f:8 r:8 w:6 SW:1
Ladoni
B. 1992
GW 6 wins
f:425 r:354 w:197 SW:7
Danehill
B. 1986
GW 4 wins
f:2414 r:2082 w:1630 SW:347
Danzig1Northern DancerNearctic14
Natalma2
Pas de NomAdmiral's Voyage4
Petitioner7
Razyana5His MajestyRibot4
Flower Bowl4
1Spring AdieuBuckpasser1
Natalma2
Lilac Charm
B. 1980
Wnr 1 win
f:7 r:7 w:7 SW:3
BustinoBustedCrepello16
Sans le Sou2
Ship YardDoutelle2
Paving Stone1
Rose DubarryKlaironClarion1
Kalmia1
PristinaPetition16
Tina9
Speedmaster
B. 1990
NP
f:11 r:11 w:7 SW:1
Whiskey Road
B. 1972
Wnr 1 win
f:506 r:422 w:299 SW:26
Nijinsky1Northern DancerNearctic14
Natalma2
Flaming PageBull Page4
Flaring Top8
5Bowl Of FlowersSailorEight Thirty11
Flota22
Flower BowlAlibhai6
Flower Bed4
Call Me Biddy
Ch. 1983
SW 6 wins
f:5 r:5 w:3
Copper KingdomNijinsky1Northern Dancer2
Flaming Page8
Peace MovementAdmiral's Voyage4
Deep Blue Sea7
Call Me PollyFree StyleDemocratic3
Easel1
Just PollyBallywit14
Proposal5

Danehill (USA) 1986 : 3f x 3m
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote slowdown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2017 at 6:04am
Stakes winner - Danehill 3f x 3m
Rebel - racing. Lionel - in work. Glory - spelling. Ray - spelling. A Wee Nip - in work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goldey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:26am
Article on Danehill inbreeding on breednet today if someone can share,Danehill dups has 2% stakes winners to runners based on their info today .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 10:43am
What was Star Kingdoms final tally for inbreeding to himself ?

As with Star Kingdom there is a lot of dross that distorts these types of figures.



Stakes Double for Double Danehill
Tara Madgwick - Thursday, 23 February 2017
Love it or hate it, we are seeing more and more of horses carrying a double cross of Danehill and two of them have won stakes races in the past week.

Ducimus - Grant Courtney

Ducimus - Grant Courtney

$700,000 Inglis Premier sale-topper Ducimus (2c Snitzel x Beauty World, by Danehill Dancer) opened his stakes account with a good win in the Listed VRC Talindert Stakes last Saturday and carries a close up 3 x 3 double cross.

Star Tasmanian juvenile Pateena Arena (2f Needs Further x Gehenna, by Ladoni) won her second stakes race when taking the Listed Gold Sovereign Stakes at Launbceston on Wednesday and is also 3 x 3 to Danehill. (Read about her win here

The current statistics for the double cross within five generations according to Arion are 46.4% winners to runners – 1165 winners from 2513 runners.

51 stakes-winners are bred this way headed by Group I winners Guelph, Southern Lord and the Northern Hemisphere bred Astaire.
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:22pm
46% winners to runners and 2.5% stakes winners to runners is hardly a ringing endorsement
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

46% winners to runners and 2.5% stakes winners to runners is hardly a ringing endorsement

You would need to cut through the dross and look how often this kind of breeding is through quality stock.

As I asked, I wonder what Star Kingdoms percentages were for similar inbreeding ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 1:14pm
I think you will find that the 2 x 2 duplications or closer were not a success yet the results appear to be a bit more consistent when spun out to generation three.
 
 
“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 1:21pm
As Flight says with most things wait and be patient.  After three or four generations give it a go.  But the figures all have bad pedigrees and good pedigrees involved.  If the female line didn't respond well to Danehill blood in the first place a second cross probably wont help either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sworn Revenge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2017 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by Flight Flight wrote:


I think you will find that the 2 x 2 duplications or closer were not a success yet the results appear to be a bit more consistent when spun out to generation three.
 
 


Hope so Flight. I'm involved in a Reset mare ( Referendum ) that is in foal to Needs Further and we have Danehill 3 X 3 but sex balanced on the female side.

The stallion is doing a great job in my opinion at these early days.
It's only called gambling when you lose
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