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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Some twat on here was beating his chest on the milton speed test trials, now it's revealed they where as dodgey as the 2 budgets handed down, can see a positive in it 😎😎. Fair dinkum.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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The simple fact is that the con NBN model, with or without a $700K logo (the fact that anyone would try and justify such an outrageous waste of public funds shows just how out of touch they are), is exactly that - a con - as has been written ad nauseam by experts who actually understand the technologies and the state of the existing network. Contractors who have to deal with the mess in Telstra pits have already provided details about the horrific state of the copper. It's complete bunkum that the copper to the home will be able to deliver anything like what Turnbull has claimed in many areas, which is precisely the reason he's backpedalled consistently when challenged. He may have been saddled with a pup but he's shown ZERO leadership in what could and should be a fabulous investment in Australia's future.
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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U just have no understanding of running a business 😉 |
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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i think it is brilliant that people dont understand the benefits of spending $700k developing a new culture and brand to a company. people that dont understand people and business are important for those of us that do and can take advantage of.
hold onto your beliefs. it works out great for me. the nbn is too busy improving to care. the dramas in the pits where always a reality and it was these incorrect assumptions that led to the blowout in the cost of installing fttp per connection in the first place. especially when it comes to inner city apartments where the pipes installed were done randomly and without much thought to the idea that the copper would be replaced one day. if you think finding a connection is difficult, finding a connection, removing the cable, installing a new fibre cable and then finding out where it ends up at the other end is a ton more difficult and the early assumptions that were done on the original nbn plan on this process was massively wrong and that is why figures such as $90bill for its installation of fttp were justified if not a slight exageration. much easier to find out which house it connects to and connect it. i dont expect people to understand this and maybe they have not done as many fibre network deployments as others. hold on to your beliefs though. in a year when millions have been connected to the mixed technology nbn i guess it will be harder to believe in. no doubt there will be desperates out there that will hold onto labors predictions on what they could of achieved. the fact they were wrong every time and the new nbn has been right every time should not influence your belief. |
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Not sure why you keep repeating the obvious. Cons are forever trying to put lipstick on pigs. and it goes without saying that you in particular would think that a government monopoly wasting $700,000 of taxpayers money on a logo was "brilliant". The only thing brilliant was the con job pulled by the marketing firm.
Leaving aside the obviously ludicrous cost, the test for any branding is twofold - (1) is it necessary (2) will the "brand" be better recognised in the market place as a result. It's fairly obvious to most - not you of course - that the NBN already has adequate exposure to carry out its charter. They don't need to tout for business because by and large they are the only option - surely a massive failure of policy from a con point of view where (so called) consumers should be able to select which service they want from a competitive market?
A management with it's feet on the ground and a tiny bit of nous would have gone to unis and TAFEs (do they still exist under state con govts?) and run a national competition for the design of a logo with the prize a small cash handout and/or payment of course fees. For under $50K (including advertising the competition) not only would they have stimulated the creative juices of our new design talent they would have received plenty of free publicity and be seen as a good corporate citizen. The reality is of course that dropping the "Co" and a new diamond encrusted, triple gold plated logo will do nothing to raise the profile of Turnbull's half-baked, super expensive, technological dogs' breakfast. |
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Think Q needs a name change to dodger. 👍
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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i understand that many people have no understanding of the benefits of marketing companies and what they bring. this was never about just a logo, this is about finding out what the marketing is looking for and projecting this image to your market, your staff and your stakeholders.
that is fine and it sounds perfectly legitimate that people who have no understanding of business would see a benefit in taking this work to Tafe students. the idea of taking the cultural direction of a $50bill company to kids out of school is exactly the type of amateur thinking that we need in society so that others can prosper. like me. 1million now have the opportunity to connect to the nbn. and of course we dont mean passed by the nbn. that wonderful term invented by the previous government to allow them to feed lies to their desperate followers. they wanted to try and pump up the numbers and therefore if a guy had met a guy for a cofffee and they discussed conneting a suburb, that was counted as a passed suburb and the numbers included in the nbn's release. that is why the liberal party took control of the nbn and realised that they 100,000 that had been passed meant nothing at all and the number that could be connected was much much lower. this culture of lies is out and a culture of focusing on correct and efficitn process is in and it is getting results that actually mean something. excellent and only 10mill more houses to go.
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Lies are out,except when turdbulls involved. Oh and your proper gander sheet |
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horlicks
Champion Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Status: Offline Points: 8373 |
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When Q stated that lies were out I went looking to see when Turnbull and the NBN chiefs had resigned but cannot seem to find it.
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Maybe he meant the Liberal Party's culture of lies under Abbott, Hockey and co? Easily the most deceitful administration in the history of federal politics.
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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if it makes everyone feel better we can go back to the labor way of putting up nbn numbers.
of course we know that the new management came in and realised that the labor way was poor practice and inaccurate and it turns out that the new managment prefer best practice and accurate numbers. you can even tell that by looking at the new logo. anyway, under the labor way of counting nbn achievmeents on ''passing'', the number would be 1.22. not that 200,000 thousand of those can acutally use it. lets stick with a number that most intelligent business people would care about. servicable premises. 1million and best yet, reaching targets set. as opposed the to labor party who after setting up the nbn, in 2010 said they would have 1.7million passed in 2013.not to mention they estimated it would cost $35bill to do. i can understand how the depserate get hungry for their labor lies. the liberal party has come in, taken over a poor setup and got it back on track to actually setting targets and achieving them. the realistic plan is 1.9mill servicable(not some made up passed term) homes by june 2016. still a big challenge and i will be suprised if they reach it. they are reaching their targets so far though and heading in the right direction. good luck to them. |
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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You want to hide the lies over testing lines ?
Edited by Gay3 - 06 Jun 2015 at 8:39pm |
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Ps over on time delivery over budget under speed. You blind soul |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Good article here about the second rate tech quietly being rolled out by Turnbull's poodles at NBN Co. The pricing presumably reflects the need to recover special expenses like the $700,000 logo.
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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$43billion ? What happened to the $29 billion
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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the advantage of fttb compared to fttp is that fttb can be delivered. pricing does not matter when it cannot be delivered.
your welcome.
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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rusty nails
Champion Joined: 20 Mar 2013 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 11301 |
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There is no advantage in delivering something that we already have.
I thought the ALP version was extravagant,and a better option was to incentivise the industry to fund the rollout themselves with generous tax incentives etc. But this version is just a total waste of money,in many cases speed will not improve at all,and will be delivered on existing decaying lines. The Libs should have built it roperly,or canned it totally. What they are delivering is the worst of both worlds. An infrastructure project that fails to meet requirements,and a massive bill to add to Joe's budget emergency. |
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Demolay
Champion Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Location: Gold Coast Status: Offline Points: 541 |
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The question should be how long will our $43b investment be relevant, and how much will we have to pay and when, to keep up to speed with future technological advances into the future?
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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That question was answered long ago.
I see the $700K logo has blown out to nearly $1M with the Turdbull executive deciding they need to advertise their monopoly presence in the market because, apparently, most of us have never heard of them. Or to put it another way - they are keen for their $700K artwork to be seen and appreciated. Surely someone at the National Gallery is negotiating with them to have it sit for a portrait so they can hang it in the gallery? Would make a good example of the folly of entitled managers with no sense of value who are not held to account for their expenditure of taxpayer funds.
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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We knew before today that the Coalition's NBN plan would cost much more than claimed, and that the odds were stacked against its easy implementation, writes David Braue.
After six years of attacking Labor's National Broadband Network (NBN) rollout in opposition, the reality check handed to the Coalition about its own alternative policy has substantially rephrased the entire conversation about the future of broadband in Australia. In presenting the long-awaited Strategic Review into the current state of the NBN, Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull said the review marked "the beginning of the era of truth on broadband, and the beginning of an era where we will have facts to work with, objective analysis instead of political spin". It's quite a claim since in opposition Turnbull was, in my view, a master of political spin, engaged in a ruthless smear campaign against Labor's fibre-to-the-premises (FttP) rollout while promoting a less technically-capable alternative NBN built on fibre-to-the-node (FttN) technology that, among other things, requires the government to somehow gain control of Telstra's century-old copper phone network. The Strategic Review's revelation that the Coalition had seriously underestimated the costs of its alternative policy going into the election - and made rollout promises that it can not deliver - made the review a Pyrrhic victory for Turnbull, who had previously concocted a worst-case scenario putting Labor's version of the NBN at up to $94 billion. The reality is much humbler - $73 billion if the current FttP rollout is continued, versus $41 billion for the Coalition's mostly FttN model. Factor in potential financial and social returns, and it's not even clear that the Coalition's option represents the best value-for-money option. Yet behind the headline figures is an interesting story you may have missed, which was played out on the pages of Fairfax Media newspapers and specialist telecommunications site ZDNet Australia, in which I processed and published NBN Co's unadulterated advice to the incoming government in small pieces over the last fortnight. This advice - which was prepared by NBN Co during the caretaker period to help the now Department of Communications prepare its 'blue book' incoming government brief for Turnbull - was the first formal evaluation of the Coalition's policy and spelled out in some detail just how many challenges the Coalition's NBN model would present. It was leaked after Turnbull resisted repeated calls to publish the blue book, and the Department of Communications has knocked back repeated freedom of information requests for its release - even in redacted form. After my stories based on the leaked document began appearing, Turnbull continued to defy calls for the release of the blue book - and said that the NBN Co advice was not part of the blue book. Just to recap: the advice was prepared by NBN Co for inclusion in the blue book, cleared by its board and, it would be assumed, delivered to the department for inclusion in the blue book. If it did not eventually make it into the blue book, that could only be because either the new minister, or someone in the department, had instructed that it not be included in the incoming government brief. In other words, the expert and objective opinion of NBN Co - whose over 3,000 staff include some of Australia's most talented telecommunications engineers - was deemed to be so politically tainted that it did not merit presentation to the incoming minister. Turnbull, whether by design or by what we might infer, preferred to make his own truth about the NBN. As you read through the NBN Strategic Review, it's important to also consider the advice that was given to Turnbull by NBN Co's experts as they sought to paint a realistic portrait of the challenges facing the Coalition in its construction of a mostly FttN NBN. The NBN Co knew months ago that the Coalition was "unlikely" to make its 2016 deadline for delivering 25Mbps broadband to all Australian premises, and would struggle to meet its 2019 secondary deadline of boosting this to 50Mbps on 90 percent of fixed-line services. In response to the Strategic Review announcement today, the Shadow Minister for Communications, Jason Clare, was quick to condemn the timeframe blowout as an indictment of a government that had made grandiose promises before the election that it was showing it couldn't keep. Yet that's only the beginning of what became a stream of stories highlighting different aspects of the NBN Co advice. Much of that advice is damning and suggests that the Coalition has painted itself into a corner by advocating the widespread use of technically inferior FttN technology. For example, use of FttN would not only force the biggest spenders on broadband to look elsewhere for connectivity, but would threaten revenues from high-end broadband services. The problem is so significant, NBN Co warned, that the Coalition needs to plan an eventual fibre-to-the-premises (FttP) rollout now to cost-justify its own approach. Failing to do so, NBN Co warned, could leave the government facing such an unfavourable FttN revenue model that it could be forced to pay for its NBN out of taxpayer funds rather than funding it off-budget as a strategic investment. Then there was NBN Co's assessment that the Coalition's preferred FttN technology wouldn't support its policy promise of delivering guaranteed 50Mbps services; that the FttN model's lower revenues could keep prices higher than they need to be for existing FttP customers; that the installation of approximately 60,000 large and unwieldy kerbside FttN cabinets would face resistance from local councils; and that FttN's limited bandwidth would threaten the ability to provide government, e-health and other services across the network. NBN Co advised that the Coalition's NBN had to be built as a monopoly or risk losing so many customers that it would be financially unviable; and that it should prioritise signing up large numbers of customers quickly rather than racing to cover the entire country. Not to mention that NBN Co advised the government that its two-stage rollout was completely the wrong approach to take and would blow out costs compared with doing the whole rollout in one hit. NBN Co also advised that the government should not, as Turnbull has previously suggested, seek to own Telstra's legacy copper network - access to which is a non-negotiable requirement for FttN to work - but should instead seek to lease it to minimise its exposure to the risk of an "unknown" amount of work to fix the century-old network. It knew that building the complex administrative systems to manage an FttN network posed a "high risk" to the government's project and could hold back the project's timetable. It warned that the VDSL2 technology on which FttN operates would require costly and time-consuming visits inside each and every home on the network to test speeds and fix any performance issues caused by old copper. It even raised concerns that trying to maintain compatibility with existing phones, faxes and other analogue phone equipment might not be a "sensible" use of government funding. Indeed, NBN Co identified 12 major issues that the Coalition Government would have to remedy - each of them incredibly complex in its own right - within the next 18 months or so if it wanted to have any hope of meeting its objectives. Not even Turnbull's Strategic Review can change the reality of the NBN, which is that changing the direction of Australia's largest-ever infrastructure project not only involves massive change and unknown risks - but could, by virtue of its own technological limitations, prove unable to deliver enough revenues to justify being built in the first place. Those issues remain major challenges that will impede whatever rollout the government designs once its revised Corporate Plan becomes available next year. The new government may have chosen to ignore the well-considered advice of the very people that built one of Australia's largest telecommunications carriers from the ground up in just four years - the same people it will task with building its technically inferior alternative NBN - but it now faces an uphill struggle to deliver a functionally limited NBN that will already be outdated by the time it's complete. Technology journalist David Braue has been covering the telecommunications industry since it was deregulated in 1997. Follow him on Twitter at @zyzzyvamedia. View his full profile here. |
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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you put fibre into a network and speed and bandwidth improve. no doubt about that.
keating had the grand plan for telecommunications in this country and that was to get the private sector to do the upgrades and they did that with the hfc that was rolled out. the mixed technology setup takes advantage of this great work that keating did in the 90's rather than the idea it is a good to rip itup and add in soemthing new. the reality is that the difference between a 25mb download and a 100mb is not great enough for people to want to pay $10 a month for the service. let along the reality and that is $20-$30 a month more. the good news is that issues that actually matter, such as people actually being able to get the nbn and being made aware that they need to get over to the nbn and the sooner they do it the better, are being dealt with. new satellites will be in the sky in september to overcome the issues because labor's plan had no understanding of how popular this method of the nbn would be. new contracts with contractors have been signed that actually focus on performance rather than the cushy deals the old nbn setup that only had a focus of contractors passing properties in order to fool the fools that believed fttp was possible in this country. plenty of evidence on that lot in this website. and the fantastic new logo will go about getting people over sooner to get a return on that $1mill because amazingly the nbn board understand that if you sign people up sooner, rather than when they are forced too, it works out better for the financial viability of the company. fixing the performance and revenue issues and on top of that, getting it all rolled out on target. great work. |
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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Extra, extra, read all about it, read all about it.
New survey reveals 90% of people signing up to the NBN do so not because they have no choice but because they found the new $1M and counting logo "pretty". Source: Turdbull Neocon POP Inc. In further news, 20% of those signing up admitted to not having a device to connect to the internet. Experts are now investigating the hypnotic effect of blue logo dots, each worth roughly $10,000 taxpayer dollars. Following the runaway success of the NBN logo well-known defender of democracy and the law Immigration Minister Peter F.W. Dutton is expected to lobby Abbott for funds to see if the same effect could be used on refugees. Dutton and Abbott believe that multiple logos could be developed for pensioners, uni students and Centrelink customers. Depending on the outcome of the subliminal effects of blue dots on those particular demographics the Electoral Office may be forced to adopt a similar blue dot logo at the next federal election. |
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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it is sad really when you want to put down somethign you have no undrestanding of and then have to rely on putting down the next action.
i get to talk abotu results. a lot more interesting. labor had 5 years of the nbn to connect 100,000, although they said it would be 500,000 in that time a couple of years before it and then fed the desperate with the idea it was 300,000. the liberals have come in and got it to 1mill. not all of them are connected and if they can see that they need to drive people to get onto the nbn earlier and the best way to do that is trhough marketing. the test will be whether they can beat their revenue figures next financial year. they have fixed the quality of the company, they have fixed the process the company operates on and they have a plan to deliver it. now they need to make the organisation achieve its revenue targets and you do that through effective marketing. something that has not been the case it is 7 years of existence and is the case now. excelelnt work.
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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only thing sad Q is the mantra you are expected to pour out Tony promised some startling down speeds today freaking hilarious ps still haven't said what type of business you own or run ?
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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there have been reports from no where and from no one that they want to attack abbott over not being able to deliver 50mbs.
the issue for labor is firstly their nbn was never going to get finished and secondly, the reason why the claims are made are because currently the satellite is setup to not deliver this. this is because the labor government massively underestimated the desire out there for the nbn sattellite service and the liberal party is rectifying this with new satellites and in order to meet the demands of the market, they are setting them at the 25mbps. if they set them higher, they woudl connect less people and this government is about connecting more people and this lot of people represent those that do not currently have more than a mpbs in some areas. to receive 25mpbs or 3 to 5 times what city folk recieve currently on adsl2+ is a god send. the facts are that the goal is to connect 90% to the fixed line service and this will offer over the 50mpbs and 100mbps in some areas and that will be delivered by 2017 and might be earlier considering the impressive speed the roll out is achieving. the statement was by the end of the decade and the question will go back to the market. if those areas do want greater than 25mpbs and willing to pay for it, then they will put together a plan for the increase in thenumber of satellites and spend the hundreds of millions to solve the problem. i realise the writers for fairfax struggle with numbers and last time i checked, 2017 was not at the end of the decade. this government is not about to sacrifice connections and hundres of millions of dollars just so that they can brag about getting speeds that people dont want to pay for. the reality is that people are connecting to the nbn and they are connecting at the cheapest 12/1 connection speed with some going to the 40/15 setup. typically though, people dont want to pay the extra $10 a month to get the higher speed and they typically are not wanting the 100/40 connection that can cost you up to $30 extra a month. delivering what the market wants and delivering the actual connections. that is what this government has been about from the time it got back into government and that is what it is doing
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Guess you dont own a business
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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QUOTE=questions]it is sad really when you want to put down somethign you have no undrestanding of and then have to rely on putting down the next action.
i get to talk abotu results. a lot more interesting. labor had 5 years of the nbn to connect 100,000, although they said it would be 500,000 in that time a couple of years before it and then fed the desperate with the idea it was 300,000. the liberals have come in and got it to 1mill. not all of them are connected and if they can see that they need to drive people to get onto the nbn earlier and the best way to do that is trhough marketing. the test will be whether they can beat their revenue figures next financial year. they have fixed the quality of the company, they have fixed the process the company operates on and they have a plan to deliver it. now they need to make the organisation achieve its revenue targets and you do that through effective marketing. something that has not been the case it is 7 years of existence and is the case now. excelelnt work. [/QUOTE]
Even the dullest wit knows that establishing connection standards and developing work procedures for the numerous different problems which rollout teams encountered would impinge on early connection numbers and efficiency. It's a very well known phenomena, surprised you haven't yet come across it. To help with your education I'd suggest you go back and study the Henry Ford model but that would require you removing your head from Tony Abbott's alimentary canal for half an hour so it's impractical.
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mc41
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Goldcoast Au Status: Offline Points: 4918 |
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Gets better for Q.
NBN last year decided to keep the speed tiers from fibre-to-the-premises for the new so-called multi-technology mix model, but with a caveat that the speed tiers would now be advertised as "up to" the speeds on offer. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission admitted that such representations could be construed as misleading to consumers. NBN has indicated that retail service providers may be offered speed tools to test out lines before a product is ordered on the NBN. Initial trials of fibre-to-the-node in Australia yielded results of an average 98Mbps down, 33Mbps up, but ZDNet revealed that both Telstra and the Department of Communications had warned that the test results may not represent 'real-world experience'. |
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questions
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 9858 |
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good news people, 5 people out of the 400,000 that are using the nbn are using speeds higher than 100mb download. that is 5 more than i thought.
we now know that 80% of connections are at speeds of 25mpbs or slower. which ironically could of been delivered with no fibre anywhere in the network. what is even funnier is people that did not know that all internet connections operate on the ''up to'' method when paying for a band to be in. if you are on adsl2+ at the moment, you are probably signed up to a 8/1 plan and many people are not receiving that level of speed and not complaining because 5 or 6mbps is suitable for 95% of household operations. although i dont know what is more stupid, those that do not understand the ''up to'' setup or those that think if the price of the liberal party's nbn is a certain price and will take a certain time, that the labor party's nbn would not be extensively more expensive and take a whole lot more time when you consider that the last 15m of connection is the hardest. not sure and got to hand it to those that believe both. it is pleasing though that the liberal party nbn that is focused on comfortably achieving speeds much faster than what the market wants. good for them. happiness 5 people out of 400,000. classic.
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"it's not gambling if you're absolutely sure you're gonna win" Barney Stinson
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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What are the average upload and download speeds for people with FTTN connections?
"Stupid", particularly for a self-proclaimed astute business oriented person such as yourself, would be actually comparing simplistic costs and timeframes without looking at what you get for the investment. The FTTP V FTTN argument has been well explored by experts for years now. It's far too complex for you but even Blind Freddie (poor bloke cops an undeserved shellacking at times) could comprehend, for example, the advantages of a concrete V tarred V dirt road network for example. No doubt you spend a lot of time wondering why car manufacturers keep building vehicles which can easily exceed our speed limits and why technologists are constantly pushing the boundaries of telecast/video resolution and refresh rates when "95%" of people would currently be happy with 720p.
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