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Bonfield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2014 at 9:52pm
Clearly there is staying blood in La Amistad's pedigree through Makybe Diva, however being by Redoutes Choice she isn't bred to be a died in the wool stayer - more middle distance.  However going by her form to date I'm sure she's effective up to at least 2600m.  Although MD won over 3200m, she was very effective over a middle distance too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2014 at 11:17pm
Makybe was able to win at a lot shorter than 2000, yet La Amistad ist seen to. Asking if- the Redoubt's blood line plug on the staying side?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2014 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Dizzy Dizzy wrote:

Makybe was able to win at a lot shorter than 2000, yet La Amistad ist seen to. Asking if- the Redoubt's blood line plug on the staying side?
 
Not really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Rum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:13am
A horse may be "bred to stay", but doesn't mean it will. Temperament needs to be taken in to consideration. I backed a filly today at Lingfield called Casual Smile. By an Epsom Derby winner out of an Epsom Oaks winner, pulled hard and had no chance of getting home.
value is everything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Rum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:16am
When a horse is too enthusiastic it won't stay as far as pedigree suggests. If lazy it will stay further than breeding suggests.
value is everything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:29am
It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:32am
CASUAL SMILE (GB)Chestnut filly 2011 
Sea the Stars
Bay 2006
Cape Cross
Bay or brown 1994
Green Desert
Bay 1983
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Foreign Courier
Bay 1979
Sir Ivor
Courtly Dee
1965
1968
8-g
A4
Park Appeal
Bay or brown 1982
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Balidaress
Grey 1973
Balidar
Innocence
1966
1968
8-d
14-c
Urban Sea
Chestnut 1989
Miswaki
Chestnut 1978
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Hopespringseternal
Chestnut 1971
Buckpasser
Rose Bower
1963
1958
1-s
16-g
Allegretta
Chestnut 1978
Lombard
Chestnut 1967
Agio
Promised Lady
1955
1961
9-h
1-d
Anatevka
Chestnut 1969
Espresso
Almyra
1958
1962
7-a
9-h
Casual Look
Bay 2000
Red Ransom
Bay 1987
Roberto
Bay 1969
Hail to Reason
Brown 1958
Turn-To
Nothirdchance
1951
1948
1-w
4-n
Bramalea
Bay or brown 1959
Nashua
Rarelea
1952
1949
3-m
12-c
Arabia
Bay 1977
Damascus
Bay 1964
Sword Dancer
Kerala
1956
1958
1-o
8-h
Christmas Wind
Bay 1967
Nearctic
Bally Free
1954
1960
14-c
6-b
Style Setter
Chestnut 1990
Manila
Bay 1983
Lyphard
Bay 1969
Northern Dancer
Goofed
1961
1960
2-d
17-b
Dona Ysidra
Bay 1975
Le Fabuleux
Matriarch
1961
1964
13-c
16-g
Charleston Rag
Chestnut 1982
General Assembly
Chestnut 1976
Secretariat
Exclusive Dancer
1970
1967
2-s
10-a
Music Ville
Bay 1972
Charlottesville
Meadow Music
1957
1956
14-a
11-f
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m x 5m
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Rum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:37am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




In most cases it is not the trainers at fault Djebel, just how the horse performs. Different characters in horses as there are in humans. Sometimes it doesn't come out until they've actually run at the trip, with everything that happens on a racecourse.
value is everything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 4:46am
Originally posted by Red Rum Red Rum wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




In most cases it is not the trainers at fault Djebel, just how the horse performs. Different characters in horses as there are in humans. Sometimes it doesn't come out until they've actually run at the trip, with everything that happens on a racecourse.

In Australia stayers have all there speed trained and raced out of them. This has been proven over time.

Casual Smile raced a little fresh but if she is actually up to that class she will stay all right. Its a worry that they have her wearing a nose roll, Pommy trainers as a rule do not like head gear unless there are issues.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Red Rum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 6:13am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:


Originally posted by Red Rum Red Rum wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It certainly does not help if the trainers are not up to it.




In most cases it is not the trainers at fault Djebel, just how the horse performs. Different characters in horses as there are in humans. Sometimes it doesn't come out until they've actually run at the trip, with everything that happens on a racecourse.


In Australia stayers have all there speed trained and raced out of them. This has been proven over time.

Casual Smile raced a little fresh but if she is actually up to that class she will stay all right. Its a worry that they have her wearing a nose roll, Pommy trainers as a rule do not like head gear unless there are issues.




Normallly I'd agree Djebel, it might be a worry for a horse to run with a sheepskin noseband (often used to keep their head down). But her trainer is Andrew Balding, son of Ian - who trained the great Mill Reef. Since Mill Reef ran in a noseband in 1971 most (even the most genuine) horses coming out of the Kingsclere establishment wear them. However, Casual Smile did play up a bit beforehand, getting rid of her jockey. May be if settling better (in prelims as well as in race itself) will eventually learn to stay 12f.

Surely speed in a racehorse is important even in stayers, those with a turn of foot having an advantage? Especially where home straights are as short as in Australia.
value is everything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2014 at 3:22pm
Nash rode this like he expected a turn of foot as soon as he asked for it. The horse was simply out sprinted by sprinters over 1200m He should have been into it a lot earlier.

LIFELINE EXPRESS (NZ)Bay colt 2010 
Zabeel
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Bay 1971
Sir Ivor
Bay 1965
Sir Gaylord
Bay 1959
Turn-To
Somethingroyal
1951
1952
1-w
2-s
Attica
Chestnut 1953
Mr Trouble
Athenia
1947
1943
13-b
8-g
Isolt
Bay 1961
Round Table
Bay 1954
Princequillo
Knight's Daughter
1940
1941
1-b
2-f
All My Eye
Chestnut 1954
My Babu
All Moonshine
1945
1941
1-w
6-e
Lady Giselle
Bay 1982
Nureyev
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Special
Bay 1969
Forli
Thong
1963
1964
3-b
5-h
Valderna
Bay 1972
Val de Loir
Bay 1959
Vieux Manoir
Vali
1947
1954
10-e
5-h
Derna
Bay 1961
Sunny Boy
Miss Barberie
1944
1950
16-a
16-c
Danehill Princess
Bay 2003
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Pas de Nom
Bay or brown 1968
Admiral's Voyage
Petitioner
1959
1952
4-n
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Bay 1968
Ribot
Flower Bowl
1952
1952
4-l
4-d
Spring Adieu
Bay 1974
Buckpasser
Natalma
1963
1957
1-s
2-d
Gypsy Princess
Bay 1999
Sadler's Wells
Bay 1981
Northern Dancer
Bay 1961
Nearctic
Natalma
1954
1957
14-c
2-d
Fairy Bridge
Bay 1975
Bold Reason
Special
1968
1969
19-b
5-h
Filia Ardross
Bay 1986
Ardross
Bay 1976
Run the Gantlet
Le Melody
1968
1971
5-g
23>
Sari Habit
Grey 1978
Saritamer
Habitee
1971
1973
14-f
14-c
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer4m x 4m,4m Natalma5m x 5m,5f,5m Special4m x 5f 
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 9:46pm
Sancerre, trained by kiwi Tony Pike.  Over here for the Qld Oaks.  By O'Reilly out of the Zabeel mare Vouvray, who won the Qld Oaks in 2004.  Trying to get in via the back door to the Oaks.  Won a Sunshine Coast class 1 on 11th May, and entered for a race at Ipswich, with the aim of earning enough prizemoney to qualify.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Sancerre, trained by kiwi Tony Pike.  Over here for the Qld Oaks.  By O'Reilly out of the Zabeel mare Vouvray, who won the Qld Oaks in 2004.  Trying to get in via the back door to the Oaks.  Won a Sunshine Coast class 1 on 11th May, and entered for a race at Ipswich, with the aim of earning enough prizemoney to qualify.
How likely is she to get into the field, assuming she wins tomorrow? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 10:24pm
No idea.  RacingCarrot reckons she might struggle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 12:32pm
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 12:45pm
reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 2:17pm
I see the filly in question was beaten, If she could not finish in the frame in a "bm80" she has no place in a "group 1 race"


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 2:25pm
My apologies she did in fact win. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 2:38pm
By 3 lengths. $21 into $13 for the Oaks. Miss Keepsake did something similar winning a couple at the Sunshine Coast to sneak into the field before winning the Oaks as an outsider.

Being placed behind Beauty's Beast suggests she has some class, on breeding she should run 2400 no problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 2:43pm
Her half Bro was beaten in the hurdle at Sandown 15 lengths.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racing Carrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:



No idea.  RacingCarrot reckons she might struggle.


Hope anyone reads that in context of previous messages-I have/had her struggling to make the field but been on her bandwagon all the way!

I have her 21st in Order Of Entry at the moment with query on Hera ahead of her. 18 to run these days.

Yesterday it was looking a bit bleaker but probably a few more than expected dropped out today so that helps her chances.

If she gets in should be a big chance but she was far enough down I didn't take the $41 yesterday. If she makes the field should be interesting to see what odds she starts off wins at Sunshine Coast and Ipswich. Very similar to Miss Keepsake as you said, and Vouvray who missed the Roses field but snuck into the Oaks with 15k or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racing Carrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by BlackKnight BlackKnight wrote:

By 3 lengths. $21 into $13 for the Oaks. Miss Keepsake did something similar winning a couple at the Sunshine Coast to sneak into the field before winning the Oaks as an outsider.

Being placed behind Beauty's Beast suggests she has some class, on breeding she should run 2400 no problem.


Oh that was you who mentioned Miss Keepsake, apologies.

Loved that effort behind Beauty's Beast over a trip clearly too short. She got no luck over 1600m next time out when held up and out too late.

Class + Breeding certainly not issues but hopefully she settles better on the bigger track.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racing Carrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 3:44pm
Correction-20th Order Of Entry, Somerset Lass is lower down than I thought due to part of her prizemoney being from a bonus which doesn't count.

If we take Telepathic out that makes her 19th with a question mark over Hera.

Looking much better today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by Racing Carrot Racing Carrot wrote:

Correction-20th Order Of Entry, Somerset Lass is lower down than I thought due to part of her prizemoney being from a bonus which doesn't count.

If we take Telepathic out that makes her 19th with a question mark over Hera.

Looking much better today

Where are you getting this list from ?


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racing Carrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:


Originally posted by Racing Carrot Racing Carrot wrote:

Correction-20th Order Of Entry, Somerset Lass is lower down than I thought due to part of her prizemoney being from a bonus which doesn't count.

If we take Telepathic out that makes her 19th with a question mark over Hera.

Looking much better today


Where are you getting this list from ?




Steve Hewlett on twitter
@stevejoseph69

Posted a pic of the official Racing QLD list before Sancerre won and moved up from 26th to 20th.

Before that was using my own which is always risky as you get the odd bonus horse stuffing things up like Somerset Lass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Bonfield Bonfield wrote:

Amexed.  By Pentire out of a Danasinga mare.  Granddam by Shy Rambler.  Half brother to Danahere (won 2400m) and Digital Fortress (4th VRC Derby).  Running in Rough Habit Plate on Saturday over 2000m.  In form trainer Tony Gollan.
 
Hope someone got on at the $16 last start.  Stepping up further in distance to 2200m on Saturday.  Expect more improvement.  Looks hard to beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2014 at 3:03pm
Miss Zenella.  4yo mare trained by Peter Moody.  By Zabeel with Sir Tristram blood on the dam's side as well.  Descends from the best ever broodmare in Australia - Eight Carat.  Full sister to Zephyron.  Family of Tristalove, Viking Ruler, Diamond Like, Kempinsky.  Miss Zenella has already shown her staying credentials when 2nd in Qld Oaks.  Stepping up to 2400 on Saturday.  Leadup runs suggest she's ready to fire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2014 at 2:53pm
Whilst I am of the view that no horses today are specifically bred to stay much further than 2400m most are bred to stay between a mile and 2400m.

I have no doubt you are wasting your time in Australia as the trainers seem totally incapable of developing them. There is not one trainer I would trust to develop such a horse. Perhaps PERHAPS Gai Waterhouse.

I assume Rose Dancer is showing the Ellerton yard a stack of pace at home. I have no doubt with her pedigree middle of the road Japanese and European trainers would harness that speed into a top class middle distance prospect.

Rose Dancer and her ilk are wasted in Australia.


reductio ad absurdum
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Geraldo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2014 at 10:14pm
Yeah, Ian Balding and Geoff Wragg put noserolls on all their horses.  (Referring to a few posts ago.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Racing Carrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2014 at 8:42pm
Ponderosa Miss bolted in again over 1400m in a R75 at Te Rapa yesterday and should be one to watch over ground now.

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/RaceInfo/43195/9/Race-Detail.aspx

snippet from Theinformant

Today’s race was the High Chaparral four-year-old’s first since an easy win over 1600 metres at Ellerslie in late May and now with three wins from seven starts, her connections are looking at bigger goals.

At the top of their list is the 2040-metre Gr. 1 Spring Classic at Hastings on October 4, but first they need to know she can earn a start.

“It’s a tall order but I’d like to think she’s up to it, especially at that distance, she’ll love it,” said Hollinshead. “She had a rating of 70 before today and we’ll have to wait and see how many more points she gets after this. Ideally she’ll run her over 1600 metres next, so we’ll look around for the right race for her.”
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