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Climate Change - Global Warming.. |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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Yep, like ozone depletion. We just waited that b!tch out!
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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To clarify. There are also "natural" climate oscillations like El Niño. But no natural phenomena can explain the current interdecadal warming trend. Maybe someone here can indentify the what the real driver is. Make themselves rich and famous. |
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Scientists could never agree about what caused COTS "infestations", or what the long-term consequences were, or even if all the effects were negative. The idea that "they" did something about it, and thereby effected a solution, is fanciful, sure a few weekend warriors collected starfish from selected locations where tourists gathered, but this was never going to "cleanse" hundreds of thousands of square kilometres of reef. That would be quite impractical. Not quite as impractical, though, as a recent proposal to pump cool deep ocean water on to reefs to prevent coral bleaching.
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Did we wipe the COTS out? ... if not, why not? ... we have managed to wipe out plenty of species in the past ... what stopped them from completely destroying the reef the time before the last "disaster"? ... what? ... we don't have the data going back 2,500 years, so we are just guessing? ... AGAIN!!!???
... or was it just a CYCLE? Everything works in a cycle ... there are always peripheral, minor things that mean the cycles are never exactly the same, even humanity can make a minor difference, but not enough to change the natural outcome ... in fact if humanity was not here, that would only cause a ripple to the natural cycle of the planet's evolution. Get over yourselves people, you're not that important in the scheme of things! If anyone wants to tell you anything else, just be wary that they are not being influenced by $cience ...
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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... and if you are not happy calling a cycle a cycle, please feel free to call it an "oscillation".
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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There are still people running around peddling dire warnings about COTS. It has the feel of an "industry", where alarmism will get you prompt attention from media. In reality, if the COTS was the menace it was advertised to be, it would long since have grazed down the GBR. And still no word on what causes it to explode in numbers from time to time.
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Go Flash Go
Champion Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 10250 |
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Is this debate still going on .... some people do manage to keep their heads up their posterior for quite a long time don't they
What was that saying they hung on ... the science is settled ?? without having an inkling of what they were talking about ... .... anyway this is time wasting as it's always been .... let the dead bury the dead ... now that's a good saying
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Well, Flash, I've long suspected that people get a kind of fatigue about dire warnings, when they fail to materialize, they take less notice of the next "cry wolf" event. This has been seriously damaging to the AGW case. An economy of crisis warnings is needed, the COTS scare, e.g., I regard as BS throughout its longish history, it seems no co-incidence to me that it first emerged with the popularization of diving in the early 60's, prior to that they (COTS) were out of sight, and out of mind.
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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Well come on then Doc. Don't be shy. Identify the natural mechanism behind the current warming trend. What's driving this "cycle"?
Once you've done that, you can explain why it's that, and not the 35% increase in concentration of the CO2 that's doing it. |
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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I remember (vaguely) a news story in the 60's where concerns were raised that oxygen levels in the atmosphere were threatened by human activity. I kid you not. The AGW "wolf" may well come, but it will have been assisted by unnecessary alarmism about other environmental risks, that simply was dead wrong.
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 18 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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There's no warming trend at this time in Orange NSW , Canberra ACT .. -6 degrees overnight. Maybe it is that it is the winter cycle but I'm having it looked at, At this stage with great care we can have some improvement around Christmas. |
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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“Earth has Shifted” – Inuit Elders Issue Warning to NASA and the World (Video)Global Climate Change: The Earth Has Shifted, Say Inuit Elders. A new
warning has come to NASA from the Inuits. They are warning that the
change in climate is not due to global warming but rather, because of
the Earth shifting a bit. They state that the earth has shifted or “wobbled”. “Their sky has changed!” The elders declare that the sun rises at a different position now, not where it used to previously. They also have longer daylight to hunt now, the sun is much higher than earlier, and it gets warmer much quickly. Other elders across the north also confirmed the same thing about the sky changing when interviewed |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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max manewer
Champion Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 32947 |
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Haha, they must have had a container load of rum float ashore.
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scamanda
Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2008 Location: The Manor Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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I don't know how the science can be settled when scientists disagree.
The science has never been settled except for the politically motivated. Those scientist who speak out against the Climate Change driven scientists and politicians are just yelled down like the left does to all other objectors on any other subject of the day. |
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I started with nothing and still have most of it left
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 18 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Aye Scamanda , Scientists will amaze you with some of their findings .
One interpreted the description , ODD ;- As a number you cant equally divide by 2. Flannery did similar for his half a million a year. |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
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"The topic of settled science is a complicated one. You see, science doesn’t deal in proofs (with the exception of mathematical proofs in certain areas of physics). Rather, it deals in probabilities. In other words, it tells us what is most likely true, but it does not tell us what is absolutely true. It is inherently incapable of proving anything with 100% certainty because we are inherently incapable of knowing everything, which means that we always have to acknowledge the possibility that there is some other piece of evidence which eludes us. Another way to think about this is that science tells us what is correct given the current evidence, but it cannot completely eliminate the possibility of unknown evidence. So in the strictest sense, there is no such thing as “settled science.” It is always possible that some new discovery will overturn previous ideas, but, and this is the really important part, that doesn’t give you the right the assume that other evidence is out there. In other words, the fact that something technically might be wrong, doesn’t mean that you can assume it is wrong (that would be logical blunder known as an argument from ignorance fallacy). Many things in science have been so thoroughly tested and so consistently make accurate predictions that it is almost inconceivable that they could be wrong. So even though we cannot be 100% certain that they are correct, we can be 99.9999999% sure, and that is good enough to consider them essentially “settled” (note: the argument that “scientists have been wrong in the past” is flawed for numerous reasons which are explained here)" https://thelogicofscience.com/2015/08/16/settled-science-part-1-is-science-ever-actually-settled/
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
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Invariably, someone is going to say either that the publications are all about the money (debunked here) or that it is peer-pressure and it’s just not possible to publish anything that goes against the mainstream view (debunked here). In short, the fundamental problem with these claims is that scientists absolutely love to publish papers that defeat common views. Discoveries like that are what we live for. No one becomes a great scientist by agreeing with everyone else. You become a great scientist by discovering new things and discrediting old ideas. If you actually had solid evidence that climate change wasn’t happening, evolution wasn’t true, etc. you would have just guaranteed yourself a Nobel Prize.
https://thelogicofscience.com/2015/08/16/settled-science-part-1-is-science-ever-actually-settled/
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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$orry, I'm not a $cientist, $o I won't $ay ... You forgot to mention that 97% of scientists agree ... that climate does change ... they don't know why, but they agree it does.
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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Yeah, research funding and grant money. Those guys and gals are really hauling it in .
One of the dumber lines of argument, and not surprisingly one favoured by the anti-vaxxers as well. https://thelogicofscience.com/2015/04/18/follow-the-money-the-finances-of-global-warming-vaccines-and-gmos/ |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Soros
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Ooops! ... I mean $oro$
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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This gives your FAKE NEWS piece all the credibility it deserves Judge ... "Finally, remember that roughly 97% of climatologists, and over 80% of the general scientific community agree that we are causing climate change." Do they? ... to what degree are we causing it? ... the answer depends on the $ize of the $ub$idy ...
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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Surely you mean the Koch$:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/phys.org/news/2013-12-koch-brothers-reveals-funders-climate.amp |
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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Or the poster child for scientific shills, Willie Soon:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2015/feb/21/climate-change-denier-willie-soon-funded-energy-industry |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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old money, old news.
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Judge, you know perfectly well that is so much easier to rally the naive, unhinged, tree hugging and virtue signaling hippies to a cause!
$soro$ would not need to spend 10% of the funds that the old established fossil fuel interests need, to make 100 times as much profit from government subsidies ... the gullible, self loathing, lefty SJW's will do his bidding, for nothing more than a clear conscience, and some legal fees to interrupt as many mining applications as they can, for as long as they can! What a business model!
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11729 |
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Gullible . All that money spent by Big Fossil, and scarcely a published article to show for it. And yet still some fall for it. No need for a "model", their fish jump right on the hook!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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BTW, can you just remind us what difference it will make to GLOBAL WARMING if Australia stopped producing emissions tomorrow - you know, like if humanity was eradicated from the continent (including aborigines), and all the cows stopped burping and farting?Oh, that's right, NONE ... and 97% of scientist agree!!! (well 100% actually) Clean-coal cheaper option than renewablesThe construction of a new high-efficiency, low emissions coal-fired power station, being considered by the Turnbull government, would cost $2.2 billion — considerably less than the $3bn of subsidies handed out to renewable projects each year, a new technical study shows. With Australians facing further hikes in their electricity and gas bills following moves by energy companies over the weekend to increase bills by up to 20 per cent, Malcolm Turnbull is under pressure to deliver relief for households, small businesses and manufacturers. New analysis, compiled by power and energy sector specialists GHD and Solstice Development Services, reveals it would cost $2.2bn to build a 1000MW ultra-supercritical (USC) coal-power plant and that it would deliver the cheapest electricity on the market. The overall cost of subsidising renewable energy generation has nearly doubled since 2011, and the RET continues to be a political headache for the Turnbull government. It is sticking to the 23.5 per cent target by 2020, despite calls by former prime minister Tony Abbott, who was involved in establishing the RET, to freeze it at the current rate of 15 per cent — a move he says would dramatically lower power bills. COAL21 chief executive Greg Evans, who is also an executive director of the Minerals Council, said the report showed that HELE coal plants, which would have “operating lives of several decades”, were viable and affordable options to replace the nation’s ageing coal-fired power stations. “The report confirms that USC coal generation can deliver on the priorities of affordability, reliability and low emissions,” he said, adding that coal-fired generation remained the “cheapest and most reliable energy source in Australia, available 24 hours a day, every day”. Mr Evans, whose COAL21 Fund has invested $300 million in low-emission coal technologies since 2006, said the report estimated the current construction cost of a modern HELE plant, or USC black-coal station, at $2.2m/MW, or $2.2bn for 1000MW capacity. “It (the report) notes electricity prices paid by manufacturers have doubled in the past decade and that USC coal is able to lower the cost of generation across the National Electricity Market, given current wholesale electricity prices.” The report stipulates that cost comparisons assume that the power plant’s revenue be “underwritten” in the form of a long-term government agreement covering the purchase of the output or capacity of the plant. Industry chiefs and Coalition MPs concerned about the retirement of coal plants in NSW and Victoria have identified opportunities for new investment in coal plants, using low-emissions technology including viable carbon capture and storage options. With up to 1200 HELE plants being planned or built in Asia, and similar technology anchoring electricity production in Japan and Germany, senior government MPs, including Mr Abbott, have backed investment in coal-fired energy. Mr Turnbull said last month his government remained open to using cleaner-coal technology to replace existing generators, in what he said would be a “long-term commitment”. The Turnbull government has asked the Australian Energy Market Operator for advice on how to best ensure “new continuous dispatchable power is provided”. Resources and Northern Australia Minister Matt Canavan has said cleaner coal-fired power stations could potentially save up to 30 per cent in carbon emissions, as well as additional savings on operational costs. He has predicted the construction of a new coal-fired power plant would take “about three years”. “They do cost a little bit more to build, but overall they come out at the same cost or cheaper than the older coal-fired power stations that we have right now,” he said. He said investors in Asia and Australia were interested in selling cleaner-coal technology and some were open to the idea of “owning a station here”. The government has adopted 49 of the 50 recommendations made in a review led by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel, aimed at delivering a blueprint for the future of the electricity market. The Finkel report, which did not rule out new coal-fired power plants as being part of the nation’s energy mix, analysed how the government could work to secure energy supply, drive down prices and cut emissions. Dr Finkel’s final recommendation for a Clean Energy Target is expected to return to cabinet over the winter break, and to the partyroom, where conservative MPs have argued against new emissions regimes. |
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 18 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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OHHH how my iggles ached over night . I had read where my area of birth and first 30 years was -10 in the early hours.
Global warming wasn't on anyone's mind in that area . Viagra sales came to a standstill ( everything was stiff and hard ) no water from taps even. Then they say decentralise but I can tell you one plus, Real Estate is most affordable in those areas at this time of the year. |
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3blindmice
Champion Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Status: Offline Points: 18105 |
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The only cycle involved is the rubbish you keep 'pedaling'. What's stopping you from doing some reading about the basics involved in climate science? I'd suggest it's a combination of ego and a blind adherence to ideology.
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