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Darren Weir - Police Investigation |
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Pazman
Champion Joined: 08 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 11753 |
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Posted: 28 Aug 2013 at 10:33pm |
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A very good season last year, winning everything from Ararat in Victoria to Snowtown in South Australia but Flemington in the Spring is a different class.
Yes, he had a G1 winner in Platelet but that was over 1200m. Anybody can do that. The Melbourne Cup over 3200m is an assignment that many including Moody and Waterhouse have failed dismally with embarrassing attempts over the years and we put this down to a lack of ability, no not the horses they sent out but their ability to do what Cummings can do in his sleep. Does Darren Weir have what it takes in ability to win with Puissance de Lune? Edited by Gay3 - 25 Mar 2022 at 10:19am |
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Fiddlesticks
Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 49975 |
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He's like a cheshire cat...fair dinkum never stops with churlish grin...lol
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Panspermia.
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Ernest
Champion Joined: 19 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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How do you propose to answer your question? I mean, if the horse fails to get to or fails in the race, will that be because it wasn't good enough or because Weir wasn't a good enough trainer? You can celebrate Cummings all you like but even has missed out in the 48 of the 60 years that he's been training.
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subastral
Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 34887 |
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I would smile too if Michelle Payne slept in my bed. Also Paz, Weiry has already come second in the Melbourne Cup, so the man knows what's required. |
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41547 |
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gee if i had the fave in the cup i would be cruizin too ! and with that horse, i think he has a good,un.
so good on him. i reckon he can do it. |
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animals before people.
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Pazman
Champion Joined: 08 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 11753 |
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Any concerns about exposing PDL early?
Valid question for a 5/1 Cup fav. A that price Weir has to accept responsibility. Gee Shane Warne knocking up Liz Hurely was a suprise. Darren Weir knocking up Michelle Payne must beat that for a weight carrying record for the boys? |
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Pazman
Champion Joined: 08 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 11753 |
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Concerns that Weir is trying to mould PDL into a WFA horse from the run back. From his form OS, he is not WFA and this will compromise his stamina or the Cup. If he fails to mould hm into a WFA, then he won't win again this Spring.
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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He definitely has what it takes to win the Cup with this horse. He has the horse to do it and he has the ability.
I agree it's a slight concern how early this horse is up and winning but, if any horse can do it, it's PDL. When fresh he can sprint/mile with the best and when he's fit, look out because he accelerates at the end of a 2500m race like the Cav at the end of 1000m! She's Archie showed he knows what he's doing and I'd suggest he's a better trainer now than he was then.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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Pazman
Champion Joined: 08 Oct 2008 Status: Offline Points: 11753 |
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She's Archie was a different kind of horse and had no weight. Brew like.
Just a worry that eventhough a prolific winner in the bush, success in the black type races have been far and few. Seems he has trouble aiming for a race and rathers winning everything in between. I have to after some careful consideration, say no. |
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Sunline
Champion Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 22302 |
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But doesn't this horse prove he can train black type winners when he has the horse flesh? The guy hasn't exactly been blessed with good horses that looked to underachieve in his care.
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Sunline...simply supreme
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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What the bloody hell is a WFA horse. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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She's Archies daughter is the best horse Darren Weir will ever train.
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reductio ad absurdum
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Keefy
Champion Joined: 27 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 513 |
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if you play up. that's fine.. you just have to show up.. I'd rather the grey be be kept quiet for a while.. cos I'm flying over to watch cox plate. I'm not sure Melbourne Cup is its race.
D. Weir be drinkin whiskey not lookin at this forum. too busy wid horses yo
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subastral
Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 34887 |
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Surprised it took you so long to reply. That alert button on your computer must have broken due to over-use. |
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Hot2Trot
Champion Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6044 |
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I previously raised my concerns about Weir training PDL to win the Melbourne Cup so understand where Paz is coming from. On the positive side, I consider Weir to be a competent trainer, and he did train She's Archie to run second in the MC. However what concerns me most is that he will ask PDL to go straight from the CP to the MC without a run beyond 2040m. This means he has to get the horse fit mainly through trackwork. This is an artform. Bart can do it. Team Williams can do it. The European trainers can do it. But can Weir do it? Not saying he definitely can't, but I have my reservations. It is a huge challenge for him. By putting the mileage into PDL's legs he runs the risk of the horse not being keen enough over 2040m for the CP (like Green Moon). If he does too much he may be jaded for the MC. If he doesn't does not enough he may not be seasoned enough. Time will tell.
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MelbourneRacing
Champion Joined: 09 May 2012 Location: Qld Status: Offline Points: 2050 |
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I rate Weir very highly and I think he's proven over the last 18 months that he is improving at his placement of horses at metropolitan meetings.
Forget his strike rate in the country, because he has a lot of slow horses that owners are happy to pay for, but his city strike rate has improved dramatically. In 2012-13, Darren Weir had 264 metropolitan starters for 37 wins at a strike rate of 14, which was about the same as Moody, Snowden, Freedman and O'Brien, and better than Hayes and Price. The standout, though, was profit on turnover. Weir had an astonishing 21.4 per cent profit on turnover, up -12.6 on the previous season. The only other major trainer to have a positive POT figure was Freedman, with half the figure at 10.9%. Statistics can lie, but I think that Weir is now getting a lot smarter with his city assaults. When they go to town, they are not there for the run. |
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subastral
Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 34887 |
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Bart can do it??? Are you sure? He was all about getting 10,000m into their legs before the Cup. He is no doubt a master, but he was all about racing his horses to get them fit. Any city trainer is at a disadvantage to get horses fit through trackwork alone. Lloyd has his property, Weir is luckier, he has 2. His Ballarat stable (great for hill work) and his Warrnambool beach stable. He has had a year to plan, there are no excuses. |
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Hot2Trot
Champion Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6044 |
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Fair points Subastral. Bart won the MC with Saintly coming off the CP, but Saintly had run in the Metrop over 2400m. So You Think hadn't run below 2040m, but he only ran third in the MC. That Weir has his own property to train on is an advantage. Ditto the beach. I perhaps am more concerned about Weir overdoing it than the horse not being fit enough. I'm not a horse trainer, but I suspect overtraining is as big an issue in getting a horse in condition to win a MC as undertraining. Bart used to get them just right for the first Tuesday in November.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52023 |
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The horse trials on the CP at B'rat on Sat. with Boss on, apparently he's done a bit too well
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Mental
Champion Joined: 20 May 2012 Status: Offline Points: 635 |
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Considering how many horses bart has had in the cup over the years his strike rate is actually abysmal.
Weir will be fine. Great trainer who knows exactly how to peak a horse. Good luck to him. |
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Ernest
Champion Joined: 19 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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For those who are worried about a horse winning in August, someone pointed out on one of the other forums that Americain, in 2010, "won on July 8, July 30, and August 22" |
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Ernest
Champion Joined: 19 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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Not only that, in the same year, the runner-up (Maluckyday) won on August 24 and the third placegetter (So You Think) won on August 28 - making it a trifecta for August winners
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RoosterCogburn
Champion Joined: 27 Mar 2011 Status: Offline Points: 2026 |
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Mental said something positive about a trainer, and sent well wishes! |
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Voss
Champion Joined: 15 Mar 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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Disagree. IMO he gets every last bit of ability out of most of them. He isn't always blessed with the quality bred stock that go through the yards of the big city trainers. The raid he made on SA with Platelet shows how shrewd he can be. He'll often take horses over to SA for easier races and good prize money. Broken + Clang and Bang looked well at MV on Saturday too. If it wasn't for the Diva we'd be sitting here all talking about how we know he can train them for the Cup because he has trained a previous winner. I've backed up my confidence with a bit on PDL fixed. :) |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31448 |
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If you can train a second place to MD at your only go then yes, dummy, you can train the winner.
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Hot2Trot
Champion Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Status: Offline Points: 6044 |
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Yes, I query the "has trouble setting for a race" theory. He set PDL for the Bendigo Cup last spring and won it by 8 lengths. His 2nd with All Archie in the MC is further evidence.
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ExceedAndExcel
Champion Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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She's Archie would have won if not for a miracle Glen Boss ride on Makybe Diva.
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princerubiton
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 11051 |
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I have a problem with this. The champs have no excuses, they are winners. She's Archie wouldn't have beaten her luck or no luck 100 times over. |
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ExceedAndExcel
Champion Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16246 |
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Please!
Makybe Diva got a miracle run weaving a passage through the entire field and won by a length. If you don't think she was lucky to win you need to reassess the way you analyse races. |
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James
Champion Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 7230 |
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You make your own luck. She had a champion jockey on board and that was the difference.
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