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Australian property crash |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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You'd be typical Westpac bANKER ...
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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The CBA thinks Sydney property values can fall 10% |
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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Passing Through
Champion Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Location: At home Status: Offline Points: 79532 |
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Am I reading the graph wrong. Highest prices 2009. Prices in Sydney Melbourne especially have more than doubled since then. How can prices come down with the flood of new settlers increasing demand ... Simple I would have thought. |
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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Graph shows % change in prices, not actual prices
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Thank you , I'm not the sharpest tool in the kit.
So hard to understand people doubting the solid Real Estate with our migration rates. At this time , to encourage more Regional and outer Suburb construction , such things as deposits & grants are decided by post code. |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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... 5% off the peak and so another 5% to come? ... sounds feasible to me! What do you think Whale? ... big difference between 45% and 5% ... which do you believe?
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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the sensationalist story was debunke on our wonderful ABC |
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Tlazolteotl
Champion Joined: 02 Oct 2012 Location: Elephant Butte Status: Offline Points: 31417 |
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E should fact check all the garbage he picks up from the rubbish sites he frequents. Much as I run a virus/malware scan after visiting the Piratebay.
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An honest politician is one who when he is bought will stay bought.
Simon Cameron |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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They seem to have lifted their game since they got rid of that token woman GM.
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Isaac soloman
Champion Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Status: Offline Points: 6085 |
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who said Victoria was going ok? House price decline reaches a year, led by Melbourne and Sydney real estate fallsBy business reporter Michael Janda Updated about 8 hours agoMelbourne has firmly overtaken Sydney as the nation's weakest housing market, with both of Australia's biggest cities posting substantial monthly property price falls in September. September was the 12th straight month in which the nation's housing prices fell, with Melbourne's 0.9 per cent decline leading the way downwards. Sydney, Perth, Darwin and Adelaide also recorded price falls in the first month of spring, while Brisbane, Canberra and Hobart reported modest prices gains. CoreLogic data shows that home prices nationally have fallen 2.7 per cent since peaking in September last year, with capital cities responsible for the losses (down 3.7 per cent) while regional areas had a 1.2 per cent gain over the past 12 months. Over the past year, Sydney was the worst performing city, with prices off 6.1 per cent, followed by Darwin at 3.7 per cent, Melbourne (3.4 per cent) and Perth (2.8 per cent). http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-01/melbourne-and-sydney-continue-to-lead-house-price-decline/10324270 |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Looks alarmingly like Emma Alberici's handy work ... or the intern who has taken over since she was sacked as Chief Economics Correspondent at Channel 2.
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Redemption
Champion Joined: 09 Apr 2017 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5387 |
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Why the denial Dr.E?
Property savvy people with huge property portfolios, people that LOVE property, are selling up bigtime and getting out of the market. To make matters worse for people believing property only goes up in price, new buyers are now holding off from buying, because they know by waiting 3 years, they get an even cheaper home. So you get a nation full of sellers, and nobody wanting to buy yet. On top of this, the Interest Rate rise hasnt even kicked in yet. And wait till unemployment rises too. Its a tsunami waiting. Homes worth $800,000 now, will be worth $400,000 eventually. People left with huge mortgages, on an asset that is going down. Its ultimately a stock, and millions are about to lose. dare I say, the "house" always wins. LOL. The Banks. :)
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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No denial Redemption, just that a drop of < 5% in a market that has had compounding growth at double figure rates for 5 or 6 years is hardly CATASTROPHIC!!! ... in fact it is predictable. Who are these "Property savvy people with huge property portfolios" that you speak so intimately of? Why are they selling, and to whom, if nobody is buying? Are they listening to the Property experts like Tracey Grimshaw, Emma and 60 minutes of Hysteria and Lies? What is forcing interest rates up if unemployment is set to rise? ... and even if interest rates go up, how does that affect investors? ... they just put up rents. Of course $800k houses will be worth $400k ... just like that time when ... oh, that's right, that has never happened. There is potential for a further 5-10% fall in average prices in both Sydney and Melbourne - higher in some localised areas, none at all in others - that is the nature of a correction after a boom overshoots (as they always do). A few years of below average growth with mop that up in no time! I know you are normally right Redemption, but take my tip, if you have a house, please don't sell it, you will never be able to afford to get back into the market! ... if you have a house with equity, borrow hard and buy in Brisbane (but keep that one to yourself! sssshhhh). Oh wait ... unless you are predicting an ALP/Greens Collusion Government ... in that case SELL, SELL, SELL!!!!
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Whale
Champion Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Location: St Kilda Beach Status: Offline Points: 38719 |
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Brisbane’s river city lifestyle is in demand like never before.
Sydney=The median house price remains well above $1 million. Units excluded. So many factors to support strong Real Estate with the usual cyclical Ups & marginal downs . With Melbourne Sydney being on slow down , the usual patterns of stronger actions in the other Cities and Regional areas are surging. Surprising to see Regional areas like Orange ,Bathurst , Tamworth, Goulburn reaching the median prices of $400000. Brisbane is performing great, with a New surge from the South. Tradies have passed the "degree" population and as one told me the other day , "They aren't interested in the " Mum & Dad " jobs . I had to get 2 quotes for a small Body Corporate job. I could do it in half an hour with $100 maximum materials cost. ( i'm not well enough to go up a ladder ) My 2 quotes were $1800 and $2800 As you have read no doubt = Unions have Tradies valued at $288000 for Government works = SO how can House prices come down. I predicted 50 years ago that one day the slaves would "lay down". IT'S HAPPENING |
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oneonesit
Champion Joined: 06 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 37159 |
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Rental prices in some areas of Sydney are definitely under pressure (maybe all areas). My young fellow just moved back into a 2 B/R unit in lower north shore at $475/wk (older style). He moved out of the same block 18mths ago & was paying $550/wk. Stacks of rental accommodation available around here now - a renters market. Few years back the opposite. My advice to anyone wanting to get into the market would be to save your pennies for the next 18mths & then go in - think prices will come down at least another 10% in that time if not more.
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Refer ALP Election Promises
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JudgeHolden
Champion Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 11728 |
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In the last 20 or so years real estate prices have surged way above historical trend, particularly with regards to percentage of household income. People have simply plonked way too much of their money into it. It’s going to be grim for a while.
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oneonesit
Champion Joined: 06 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 37159 |
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I cannot speak for areas outside Sydney - however anyone who lives here does not need to look at reports or analyst comments to see what has happened here. Unit blocks have gone up everywhere by the thousands over the past 5 years. Just take a drive for an hour or two. Its a mixture of 4 to 5 level stuff up to 20 to 30 level blocks. Now I know our population here is increasing - however Blind Freddy could see that supply was going to outstrip demand. Eventually the balance will be restored. The real question is how long that will be & what damage is done in the meantime. I look at the whole thing very simply. When the average young couple cannot afford a modest 2 B/R unit we must be headed for trouble. Around this way that figure is around $650k - for a 30 year old modest 2 B/R unit. So even if they can save the $65k 10% deposit - they still need to borrow close on 600k. A lot of loot - a lot of high repayments - & scary ramifications when (not if) interest rates take off & unemployment increases.
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Refer ALP Election Promises
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Similar pattern goes with the cycle. Every Cycle. They can only go UP , Building blocks ran out long ago in Sydney. Of course the Developers keep building and run into oversupply for the short term. in the knowledge that the masses are on the way. Your son at $475 rent , has won a lottery . Good Garages bring that around Cremorne, Mosman and rental demand is twice the NSW average. THINK for a second. With students , Work Visa'a & migration reaching toward half a million per year, Tradesman charging if they fart . How can House prices go down over the longer term.? |
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Yep, spot on macca, it's a cycle, and it always was, and it always will be, just like everything else!
We don't even need to stretch our memories 20 years. Exactly the same thing happened in 2004 through to say 2007 in Sydney - oversupply, vacancies, people who watched 60 minutes got spooked and sold - the prices dropped as much as 20% in some areas of Sydney (average drop was about 10%) whilst the other major cities boomed - and anyone who bought at the peak in 2004 for the average price of about $520k isn't too concerned about anything now - unless they choked, and acted based on the hysterical media "Advice" and sold.
So, with this latest credit squeeze, and no new money for investment, what happens when we have an influx of 1,000,0000 people in the next 4 years, who want to live in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane ... we all understand the effects of supply and demand, don't we? ... will the property prices crash another 20 or 30%? ... or will they be forced up? ... will rents keep going down? ... only if everyone who wants to live here can somehow afford to buy ... New supply in Brisbane falls off a cliff next year ... what then? ... BOOM!
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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oneonesit
Champion Joined: 06 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 37159 |
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Of course its a cycle. The question is how long the cycle is & how much damage occurs before we go into the recovery stage. This time I think it will more depressed & for a longer time. That should not be a major issue for those that have benefitted from the much higher than "normal" growth in the past decade. Its the young ones that have entered the market in the past few years - gone all in on low interest rates - that I fear for. It will happen & its going to be nasty
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Refer ALP Election Promises
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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oneone, the ONLY reason that it would be longer or more depressed would be if Pauline Hanson was in charge of our immigration policies.
No immigration, and then we DO have a property bubble, and with no more people needing a roof over their head, the property market, just like everything else, bursts! Then we have mass unemployment and a recession ... until China bails us out by buying everything for $1. If there is no real change to immigration numbers, as expected, the other options are; ALP/Greens get in ... huge issues caused by reckless "populist" changes to Negative Gearing and CGT rules, along with their attack on self funded retirees - huge tax impost on "Aspirational Mum and Dad" investors, exacerbating a market that is lacking confidence - a huge hit, long term for ALL property owners, not just investors, leading to minimum $500,000,000,000 "wealth black hole" - much of this will need to be filled by future generations, don't forget, the family home is the only "super" for a vast number of Baby Boomers, and it will be required by retirees over the next 20 years, or people will just have to put off retirement for another 10 -20 years. Increased rents are the obvious outcomes, and housing affordability will not change to any great degree. In fact almost ALL new home buyers will be worse off, as the future value of their potential inheritance is smashed. These figures are simply based on the ALP's own policy document that sits in their website, and has been there since it was cobbled together as an opportunistic populist thought bubble before the last election - the outcomes are actually acknowledged by the Grattan Institute (the ALP's preferred number crunching "think tank") they say a "small" immediate drop in property values of around 2% would occur, assuming they are right(?) along with a reduced future capital growth rate - sounds benign, but if you do those figures, it's a cost to wealth of $500 Billion over 10 years for a purported $32 billion tax grab (which will of course be spent on public servants!) ... if those estimates are only slightly wrong, the forward estimate cost to the wealth of citizens who have an interest in property will become TRILLIONS of dollars. These projections are hardly alarmist. Some more recent examinations and estimates by independent sources are far harsher, some saying that the effect would be like a 1-1.5% interest rate increase, and predicting 9% slides in values. Of course, the great irony of these policies is that the "Party of Envy" are trying to look like they are punishing the "rich" and giving to the "poor" - in fact, they are creating MORE POOR, as the middle class apirational "Mums and Dads" will just say "what's the point" we wont bother trying to create our own retirement funds, and join up to the welfare plan, whilst the truly rich will just shuffle their wealth and find another way, because they can, because they are, well, RICH. LNP stay in ... steady as she goes, predictable property market. If ScoMo can get his narrative sorted, and properly prosecute these issues around this ALP policy of ECONOMIC TERRORISM, with a simple message (like SHORTEN'S ECONOMIC TERRORISM) - and he touched on it yesterday in fact - then it WILL be a massive game changer ... if the electorate is smart enough to "get it". Malcolm didn't even mention this prior to the last election ... well to be fair, he didn't say anything except "jobs and growth" did he? ... funnily enough, he delivered on both, and still failed. |
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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For anyone who wishes to do their own research;
... of course, you will need to dig a bit deeper than this alone.
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45721 |
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Wouldn't it be a real shame if the negative gearing "investors" did their dough.
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Dr E
Champion Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 28563 |
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Are you really that jealous of aspirational people, who work hard and make money so that they are not a burden on society, so you can enjoy your welfare cheque every fortnight? So if "investors did their dough", just who's going to pay us when we join you in the dole queue? The Guvinmunt ...
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In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Second Chance
Champion Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Status: Offline Points: 45721 |
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My welfare cheque?
ps you clearly fail to understand that the "aspirational" people you refer to are indeed those who legally limit their tax liability, but in doing so both inflate house prices and place a greater tax burden on PAYE employees. Simple as.
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maccamax
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Status: Offline Points: 41473 |
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Short & Sweet . Been going through this for some 65 years .
Doc has it well explained and nothing , (has or will) change in Oz in another ( say )50 years. The investors are doing what our Governments have failed to do .( House the Population ). AND Tenants are more destructive than Termites. From a Business angle = What is the difference between Coles, Woolies or the Corner Store. "Maccas' or Harvey Norman etc buying and trading their goods THAN someone doing similar with Real Estate. All have their Tax Relief claims , provide employment and suffer the heartaches of supporting the likes of what our Government Import to keep our economy ticking over. Brighter News . I just got myself a new puppy. Brown ,Black with a few white spots . I've named him Bankstown. |
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