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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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Dynaformer (USA) 2012 STUD FEE: USD 150,000 Died as a 27-y-o br horse (11.1f) AEI 1.94 PEDIGREE: Roberto (USA) (11.2f) — Andover Way (USA) (His Majesty (USA) (f)) STANDING: Three Chimneys Farm, Kentucky (USA) SIRE COMMENT: G2 9-10f US winner, very good sire on turf/dirt, has top-class 2yos, progeny usually progress well STALLION DETAILS STUD RECORD SALES RECORD ProgenyProgeny StatisticsProgeny Race VideoNicksResultsEntries 2000 TO DATE WINNERS-RUNNERS WINS RUNS % 2ND 3RD £ PRIZE Worldwide G1 28-136 21% 35 286 12 35 33 9,480,230 Euro Stakes 32-79 41% 48 229 21 17 27 2,923,670 1988 TO DATE WINNERS-RUNNERS WINS RUNS % 2ND 3RD £ PRIZE Flat 95-297 32% 134 849 16 108 107 2,746,817 All-weather 21-106 20% 29 183 16 20 27 130,948 Jumps 46-123 37% 72 486 15 57 55 529,539 2yo 34-107 32% 44 238 18 28 33 596,503 Broodmare sires 42-128 33% 56 471 12 45 58 266,167 5-6f 13-36 36% 13 50 26 3 8 109,055 7-9f 73-268 27% 105 516 20 89 64 4,708,461 10-11f 46-200 23% 57 362 t16 46 53 1,244,850 12-13f 34-146 23% 38 277 14 30 38 944,112 14f+ 13-85 15% 19 158 12 15 17 633,757 Heavy 13 97 13 12 11 156,114 Soft 29 209 14 26 25 205,243 Gd-sft 32 249 13 31 29 1,017,157 Good 56 377 15 47 48 674,384 Gd-fm 71 365 19 45 44 1,166,544 Statistics are for GB and Ireland unless otherwise stated |
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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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This may be easier to read http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=302069&popup=1
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Muppetmaster
Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 803 |
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What sort of mare would you send to him..??
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civilisation - the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization
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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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Racing Post Log in or Register
Dynaformer (USA) 2012 STUD FEE: USD 150,000 Died as a 27-y-o br horse (11.1f) AEI 1.94 PEDIGREE: Roberto (USA) (11.2f) — Andover Way (USA) (His Majesty (USA) (f)) STANDING: Three Chimneys Farm, Kentucky (USA) SIRE COMMENT: G2 9-10f US winner, very good sire on turf/dirt, has top-class 2yos, progeny usually progress well STALLION DETAILS STUD RECORD SALES RECORD ProgenyProgeny StatisticsProgeny Race VideoNicksResultsEntries Shows horses that make up Nick DAM'S SIRE WNRS - RNRS WINS - RUNS £ WIN PRIZE £ TOTAL PRIZE Diesis 7-8 88% 20-88 23% 692,166 968,224 Seeking The Gold 4-7 57% 7-34 21% 205,721 237,036 Storm Cat 4-7 57% 14-80 18% 317,736 366,295 Mr Prospector 4-5 80% 8-47 17% 51,401 77,969 Danzig 4-5 80% 6-58 10% 30,166 61,868 Trempolino 4-4 100% 8-54 15% 30,794 51,163 Gone West 3-4 75% 3-31 10% 8,742 15,336 Nureyev 3-3 100% 7-20 35% 338,236 454,064 Kingmambo 2-5 40% 3-30 10% 31,588 135,867 Theatrical 2-3 67% 2-12 17% 11,278 15,659 Sadler´s Wells 2-2 100% 6-36 17% 85,329 146,389 Rainbow Quest 2-2 100% 5-16 31% 102,482 157,472 Riverman 2-2 100% 6-36 17% 49,137 57,220 Night Shift 2-2 100% 4-22 18% 14,908 24,704 Boundary 1-2 50% 1-5 20% 2,286 4,380 Woodman 1-2 50% 2-28 7% 4,421 10,193 Seattle Slew 1-2 50% 7-29 24% 36,285 42,460 Rich Cream 1-2 50% 2-6 33% 44,465 47,015 Dixieland Band 1-2 50% 2-5 40% 7,771 8,310 Caerleon 1-2 50% 3-19 16% 25,259 30,386 Daylami 1-2 50% 2-17 12% 13,681 16,906 Polish Patriot 1-2 50% 3-9 33% 41,185 43,419 Danehill 1-2 50% 1-5 20% 3,886 3,886 Quiet American 1-1 100% 4-14 29% 29,502 51,003 Gold Case 1-1 100% 2-4 50% 18,133 20,281 Play On 1-1 100% 5-34 15% 16,331 23,167 Grand Slam 1-1 100% 2-15 13% 4,938 11,826 Desert Prince 1-1 100% 2-14 14% 8,422 21,995 Stage Door Johnny 1-1 100% 4-31 13% 13,475 21,913 Distinctive 1-1 100% 2-10 20% 15,856 228,424 Slew City Slew 1-1 100% 4-25 16% 18,735 33,941 Ogygian 1-1 100% 4-31 13% 14,661 20,174 Ajdal 1-1 100% 1-3 33% 5,655 8,423 Sunny´s Halo 1-1 100% 2-43 5% 7,060 10,889 Exclusive Era 1-1 100% 9-39 23% 118,458 142,490 Crafty Prospector 1-1 100% 3-18 17% 17,638 23,555 Marfa 1-1 100% 1-21 5% 3,903 9,426 Topsider 1-1 100% 1-7 14% 2,911 10,423 Sportin´ Life 1-1 100% 3-11 27% 7,012 7,409 Shirley Heights 1-1 100% 1-1 100% 3,624 3,624 Secretariat 1-1 100% 1-6 17% 3,562 5,192 Rusticaro 1-1 100% 7-40 18% 36,499 64,272 Private Account 1-1 100% 1-4 25% 4,888 7,061 Northfields 1-1 100% 1-36 3% 2,510 15,502 Niniski 1-1 100% 6-22 27% 21,491 25,065 Miswaki 1-1 100% 1-7 14% 2,331 10,644 L´Emigrant 1-1 100% 2-6 33% 17,711 21,216 Known Fact 1-1 100% 2-7 29% 7,561 12,288 Flying Paster 1-1 100% 4-13 31% 18,855 22,924 Fit To Fight 1-1 100% 1-8 13% 2,914 6,015 Dr Blum 1-1 100% 1-8 13% 5,242 10,473 Devil´s Bag 1-1 100% 1-6 17% 3,239 3,816 Darshaan 1-1 100% 1-7 14% 2,264 6,297 Cure The Blues 1-1 100% 1-15 7% 2,785 5,835 Be My Guest 1-1 100% 2-8 25% 32,918 43,511 Ballad Rock 1-1 100% 2-20 10% 9,675 12,302 Auction Ring 1-1 100% 2-22 9% 8,650 26,069 Alzao 1-1 100% 1-4 25% 3,494 3,494 Ocean Crest 1-1 100% 2-9 22% 12,075 15,913 Swain 1-1 100% 2-9 22% 6,309 10,489 Bahri 1-1 100% 1-8 13% 4,075 5,324 Out Of Place 1-1 100% 1-14 7% 3,393 10,459 Emperor Jones 1-1 100% 6-32 19% 34,616 66,081 Magic Ring 1-1 100% 1-9 11% 3,239 12,059 Mujadil 1-1 100% 1-1 100% 3,886 3,886 Generous 1-1 100% 1-13 8% 4,047 11,390 Linamix 1-1 100% 5-8 63% 619,471 645,563 Machiavellian 1-1 100% 1-12 8% 2,523 4,327 Zilzal 1-1 100% 2-6 33% 39,491 42,181 Rahy 1-1 100% 1-4 25% 4,598 7,132 Unfuwain 1-1 100% 2-12 17% 27,754 109,790 Deputy Minister 0-2 0% 0-6 0% - - Tough Critic 0-1 0% 0-2 0% - - King´s Best 0-1 0% 0-2 0% - 1,636 Nobloys 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - - A.P. Indy 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Zuppardo´s Prince 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - 241 Cozzene 0-1 0% 0-4 0% - - Blushing Groom 0-1 0% 0-11 0% - 3,578 The Minstrel 0-1 0% 0-4 0% - - Storm Bird 0-1 0% 0-3 0% - 477 Sham 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Lyphard´s Wish 0-1 0% 0-15 0% - 836 Herbager 0-1 0% 0-3 0% - 1,296 Forli 0-1 0% 0-8 0% - 2,591 Affirmed 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - - Loup Sauvage 0-1 0% 0-9 0% - 1,688 Alydeed 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Zafonic 0-1 0% 0-8 0% - - Rainbow Corner 0-1 0% 0-19 0% - 7,342 Shy Tom 0-1 0% 0-8 0% - 4,068 Septieme Ciel 0-1 0% 0-5 0% - 3,040 Polish Precedent 0-1 0% 0-7 0% - 103 In The Wings 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - Mtoto 0-1 0% 0-1 0% - - |
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Muppetmaster
Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 803 |
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AMERICA (IRE) [1997] 16yo ch f Arazi (USA) - Green Rosy (USA) (Green Dancer (USA)) ARAZI (USA) (1989) Blushing Groom - Danseur Fabuleux Wins Places Starts $PM 249 502 2687 $5,754,899 2012/13 8 25 116 $123,265 2011/12 33 60 317 $412,687 Total Stakes Winners Total Runners Stakes Winners to Runners (AUS & NZ only) All 7 93 7.5% 2yo 0 27 0.0% 3yo 3 111 2.7% 4yo 2 109 1.8% 5yo+ 2 95 2.1% Av. Win Distance Overall 1447 Stakes 3564 Non Stakes 1423 |
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civilisation - the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization
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Glencoe
Champion Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Location: Mt. Gambier S.A Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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Spearmint, i think i know a mare that may well suit Americain. What do you think?
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25067 |
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Guys this is a stallion from the mighty Chelandry line. You know like High Chaparral, Heroic, Zeditave, Forty Niner, Dignitas, Never Say Die, Sky High, Swale, Shadeed, Magpie, Neil Gow (in Wilkes), Believe It etc. This line can throw a good sire and let's face it few stallions could be better looking or put together than this boy.
Just bring on the Juliet family and give it a go. Alcopop's dam or sisters. Any relations to So You Think out there wanting a suitable mate. Or even all those Bel Esprit mares with their Wilkes blood.
There is so much blood here just for the female line alone.
Good luck to Swettenham. May another one of our Melbourne Cup winners (after At Talaq and Jeune etc) come up trumps. This one could even go all the way and top the sires list.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25067 |
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Not doing my job very well. Another of the Juliet line saluted yesterday. Testarhythm's dam is another line of which might cross with Americain.
You have the Blushing Groom /Nijinsky blood in his dam, Roberto/Ribot in his sire.
The immediate female line produced a G1 winner by Double Jay. That brings Marscay blood into calcuations.
There was a nice Machiavellian out of the second dam so that suggests the blood of Mr Prospector might work well. Or the Danehill blood of Natalma. The Halo/Hail to Reason blood there has already been tried with the Roberto/Hail to Reason sireline of Dynaformer.
Seems to me he has most of todays lines in Australia covered. Just what the next generation sire needs.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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Your first part was 100% spot on. Americain simply did not have the racing speed to be a good stallion. At Talaq and Jeune both proved they had top class racing speed. They where not just 2400m+ stayers. |
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reductio ad absurdum
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Fiddlesticks
Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 49817 |
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It looks more like Americain got his deeper stamina from his dams side to me, Dynaformer can put shorter course horse's down regularly can he not..?
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Panspermia.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 51829 |
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I won't rush into agreeing with you at this early stage as his feet problems were well known but when they 1st surfaced is not & it's an accepted fact that sore horses are always looking for 'a bit more ground' Again, many will tag him as needing a good cushion underfoot thereby tagging his progeny as wet trackers but I would too, in his case. |
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Sequi
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 716 |
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Furious, if I could trouble you to ask: How might the Show A Heart mare, Hyacinths'N'Honey from an Hamas mare match Americain? |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25067 |
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Looks good on paper. The only thing is all the recent black type is around Redoute's and his progeny or Xaar from his family. Stralia, Mr Pesident, Comearoundsundown with Stratum, Xaar and Not a Single Doubt.
Maybe you don't have to look further but maybe look to see Vain in there also or some Mr Prospector.
Volts further back was a County (Vain) and Spend (Geiger Counter) and O'Connor (Ela-Mana_Mou).
Now you had Stralia's dam by Quest for Fame a Blushing Groom line sire but she was unraced (could of been injured so no saying the cross didn't work just no sure thing).
Likewise the ddam of Comearoundsundown was by More than Ready (Hail to Reason line sire) but she also was unraced.
A bit of Relko cross seems to work (as in Volts) and another had the cross to his dam's sire Relic (as in Bletchingly), Donatello 5f x 5m and Alycidon 5f x 4f.
In your pedigree you find Ribot 5m x 6m, Nasrullah 6m, 6m x 6m, Red God 5m x 5f, ND 5f, 6m x 6m, 5m and Nijinsky 5m x 5f.
The Roberto cross with Bletchingly has worked with Charge Forward being a prime example. So that is in your favour.
Nothing against the cross but maybe the mareline is leading you to different options.
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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He wasn't really trained to show speed over shorter trips, so I wouldn't hold that against him. He win over 1400 as a2yo on debut. Out here he was trained like a European stayer and was narrowly beaten first up in Australian cup. Manighar had little speed when trained like a European stayer either. |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25067 |
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Also the Chelandry family is most know as milers. They can and do win over a distance and a short trip but milers are usually the most likely breed you will get.
We cant go one with no ying to the yang of speed either. We need a few top class stayer types in a pedigree every now again or we will end up with 800m squibs.
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jayzaa
Premium Joined: 31 May 2010 Location: Avenel Vic Status: Offline Points: 2206 |
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furious, I don't have many mares that get over ground. What do you think of Westminster Place (Westminster ex Honoured Place) and Clio Soleil (In Prosequi ex Meldtina) Thanx
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www.keffelstein.com
gotta live the dream |
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Run For Fun
Champion Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14575 |
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Ok I haven't been asked but Jayzaa will hopefully excuse me for butting in.
From a pure pedigree perspective believe Westminster Place would go just great with a son on Lonhro such as Denman (sibs Grosvenor and Concia 3 x 4 and close up crosses of Sir T, Relic, Vain for speed) and O'Lonhro (same sibs and similar crosses with a balance of speed and starch). |
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It's hard to soar with eagles...
Cheers |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25067 |
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That's alright Runfor the second mare would be the better of the two with her Meld, Whistler, Gold Bridge, Ribot, Ambiorix, Atilla blood. But the first mare you asked about is a better grade so probably your better bet. Don't get thinking only staying mares will do for him. As I tried to say above he comes from a miler family. Wilkes, Mr Prospector, Darshaan, Djeddah, Sing Sing, Seattle Slew, Lomond (Nothern Dancer), Baldric (therefore Without Fear) are some from the similar female line to Juliet. Also the 3-e family of Show a Heart has mixed in well when you get all three lines going and 1-w likes the mix also.
You have the 1-w in Alycidon and Atilla and Ambiorix in Clio Soleil. While in Hyacinths'n'Honey you have the 3-e blood of Show a Heart and Vice Regal. The 13-c or Bismark and the 1-w of My Babu and Agricola. Which is why she is still in front.
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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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And a prominent 2 yo producing dad
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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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Little birdie tells me he has over 50 mares booked in the USA already and a few good ones as well
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Sequi
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 716 |
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Thanks so much Furious. Appreciate. |
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Tangerine
Yearling Joined: 04 May 2012 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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How much Roberto is a good/bad thing?? Would my mare have too much Roberto to go to Americain? Her names Giant Mystique
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Spearmint
Champion Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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I think he would not be a bad match for LM. He is certainly a good type and was a quality racehorse. i'm still formulating ideas about the type of mares that would be suitable for Americain.
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"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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did i hear yesterday that the shares in this fellow were 30 K for life time share, didnt hear what you got 1 or 2 noms per ,does anyone know?
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lulu
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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1 per year. one extra in years 2/3 or 4 by ballot.
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Muppetmaster
Champion Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Status: Offline Points: 803 |
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How many shares are being offered, and what would the total ownership shares amount too..? |
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civilisation - the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization
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lulu
Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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27 I believe. which would give them 810k straight up. These are breeding rights mind not ownership shares. They as in the current owners would still I daresay own him.
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maxamill
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2011 Location: vic Status: Offline Points: 1336 |
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Thnks , Not. Sure only heard the end of it on tvn the other day When i heard it i tbought pretty reasonable but only nbreeding rights that changes it a bit so that's 4 noms in 3 years so 8 k per Ok if he does
Something and. Not if he doesn't but would imagine may get some decent mares from the original owners |
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v and m
Champion Joined: 21 May 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1119 |
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I think Americain has a good chance, better than Jeune and At Talaq. reason being is that both J and AT looked like the more Nasrullah the mares had in their pedigree the better and as a result I think when bred together the results were pretty good but there was a greater diversity of bloodlines in the mare population back then, now there is less diversity and there is a huge population that have Danzig in their pedigrees.
with Americain, his pedigree suggests he would be good with mares with Traffic Judge (found in Redoute's Choice's pedigree), Admiral's Voyage (eg Danehill, Danzig), Khaled (eg Bianconi), The Minstrel, Halo and/or Machiavellian (eg Street Cry, More Than Ready). There is a huge mare population with all these bloodlines and owners that are looking for stallions that don't duplicate Danzig and hopefully don't produce horses that are only good in a 800-900m races, what are the chances that majority of the mares he gets will have the above bloodlines? If/When he does produce good ones I believe it will likely be similar to what happened to Street Cry - his progeny dropped in value in the sales ring until horses like whobegotyou and shocking came along then his service fee rose dramatically
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ZAMINGA
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Tangerine
Yearling Joined: 04 May 2012 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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What about my mare? Giant Mystique - would 3 x roberto be too much in a pedigree?
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