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Expensive Flops
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andynr123 View Drop Down
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Oh wow, hell yeah.

6-03.55 EYRES SAFETY OPTICS CLASS 2 HANDICAP (1400 METRES)

Of $14000. 1st $9100, 2nd $2800, 3rd $1400, 4th $700.

Starter Subsidy: $200 for non-prize earning runners.

CLASS 2.

BOBS Bonus available: $5,000

Field Limit: 17 + 4 EM

NoHorseTrainerJockey Barrier WeightPenaltyHandicapper
Rating
1SHERZANDOJason CoyleMitchell Bell 10 59
69
2CHORALPeter SnowdenDarryl McLellan 1 57
65
3MOUNT OLYMPUSDarren SmithChris O'Brien 7 56
63
4HEEBY HITCH HIKERBrett PartelleJeff Penza 3 55
61
5SHE'S A ROCK STARDarren SmithDale Spriggs 2 55
65
6EL CAIROPaul PerryScott Thurlow 5 53.5
58
7MY MAN OF WARKris LeesChristian Reith 8 53.5
61
8SURPASSINGTracey BartleyGrant Buckley 9 53
59
9HOLY THREADDamon PembertonRobert Thompson 4 53
58
10SPLENDID HONOURSPaul PerryLeanne G Henry 11 53
55
11VEGAS LIGHTSDianne LumsdenAlex Stokes (a3) 6 53
55

Mount Olympus - $3m
El Cairo - $2m (although sold earlier this year for $28000)

And Choral probably would have gone for a high price too.
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Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Originally posted by Flight Flight wrote:

Noticed 8yr old gelding Goldtown (Sunday Silence - Bright Finish) will be at Ascot on Saturday.
 
$1.5m yearling and has current earnings of $280k.  Hasn't won since July 09. 


ran in a kalgoorlie cup and couldnt win it either.

Goldtown went around in the OTT show jumping event at Equitana on the weekend. May have finally found his calling.
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I saw in a previous link Gay posted that he had gone jumping.   He competed at the jockey,s challenge jumping , and did OK.  I forget who rode him then, but he was in the hands of a decent jumps person, so hope he has found his niche. How did he go at Equitana ??
animals before people.
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Would love to see an update on horses even fetching over $500K at sales. Especially as we are only six or so weeks from MM. The prices were ridiculous the last couple of years and you have to shake your head wondering how these owners ever hope to recoup the investment.
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There would be plenty, just look through colts, especially in years when there were hyped up 1st and 2nd year stallions who ended up being flops.

Still there would be plenty of Fastnet and Redoutes flops, plenty.
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I have the data for this years MM if anyones wants to see it?
 
 
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Conformist
Keep serving up the overs please
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You have to remember that the sample size of horses who make 500k+ is way way smaller than the sample size of horses which make 100-200k.

Overall they do well in terms of stakes percentages.

An interesting one would be to look at the 500k+ horses who don't necessarily have the hollywood pedigrees - these are generally the superb physicals and I suggest they would have a very good record.
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Originally posted by pnclick pnclick wrote:

Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Originally posted by Flight Flight wrote:

Noticed 8yr old gelding Goldtown (Sunday Silence - Bright Finish) will be at Ascot on Saturday.
 
$1.5m yearling and has current earnings of $280k.  Hasn't won since July 09. 


ran in a kalgoorlie cup and couldnt win it either.

Goldtown went around in the OTT show jumping event at Equitana on the weekend. May have finally found his calling.

He is with Rachelle Lovett  ( who knows her stuff ), who says he has found his calling. 
There is a nice vid clip on the Equitana FB about the OTTTBs jumping at equitana. 
animals before people.
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One G1 winner from 38 'Million Dollar Babies' sold at Inglis Easter between 2012-2016.

** Data from ASB. 

Year Sex Name Prize Money BTWs G1Ws Sire Dam Price
2012 Filly Belle Couture $21,775 0 0 Redoute's Choice Helsinge $2,600,000
2012 Colt Rodway $80,985 0 0 Street Cry (IRE) Tugela (USA) $1,200,000
2012 Colt Monkstone $155,725 0 0 Fastnet Rock Catreign (NZ) $1,000,000
2013 Colt Jimmy $0 0 0 Redoute's Choice Helsinge $5,000,000
2013 Colt Emaratee $7,150 0 0 Fastnet Rock River Dove $4,000,000
2013 Colt Wilderness $28,190 0 0 Fastnet Rock Gold Anthem $2,400,000
2013 Filly Mumbai Rock $29,735 0 0 Fastnet Rock Mani Bhavan (USA) $1,550,000
2013 Colt Zululand $870,631 1 0 Fastnet Rock Dream Play (USA) $1,500,000
2013 Colt Beluga Caviar $76,350 0 0 Redoute's Choice Scandinavia $1,200,000
2013 Filly Satya $43,185 0 0 Redoute's Choice Star Satire (NZ) $1,000,000
2013 Colt Wandjina $652,288 2 1 Snitzel La Bamba $1,000,000
2013 Filly Unassailed $35,180 0 0 Fastnet Rock Park Esteem (IRE) $1,000,000
2014 Colt Lighthouse Keeper $34,430 0 0 Fastnet Rock Perfect Persuasion $1,600,000
2014 Colt Taaj $20,490 0 0 Street Cry (IRE) Star on High (USA) $1,500,000
2014 Colt Sooboog $271,375 1 0 Snitzel Monte Rosa $1,500,000
2014 Colt Grand Cross $38,005 0 0 Fastnet Rock Defiant Dame $1,300,000
2014 Filly Maraam $101,320 0 0 Street Cry (IRE) Munhro $1,050,000
2014 Colt People's Knight $0 0 0 Exceed and Excel Allegra $1,000,000
2014 Filly Lake Geneva $635,500 1 0 Fastnet Rock Hips Don't Lie (NZ) $1,000,000
2015 Colt Shaheen $0 0 0 Snitzel Admirelle $2,200,000
2015 Colt America $635 0 0 Snitzel Alinghi $1,800,000
2015 Filly Peaceful Sea $955 0 0 Fastnet Rock Candlelight (USA) $1,750,000
2015 Colt War Hero $35,865 0 0 Sepoy Ancient Song $1,600,000
2015 Filly Aneeda $0 0 0 Fastnet Rock Perfect Persuasion $1,600,000
2015 Colt Shackleton $0 0 0 Fastnet Rock Wiener $1,350,000
2015 Filly Dawn Wall $0 0 0 Fastnet Rock Mennetou (IRE) $1,300,000
2015 Filly Tosen Chris $0 0 0 Redoute's Choice Weekend Beauty $1,100,000
2015 Filly Irish Sea $28,300 0 0 Fastnet Rock Hips Don't Lie (NZ) $1,000,000
2015 Colt Able Touch $2,425 0 0 Street Cry (IRE) Noesis $1,000,000
2016 Colt Unnamed $0 0 0 Snitzel Vegas Showgirl (NZ) $2,300,000
2016 Colt Unnamed $0 0 0 Redoute's Choice Estelle Collection (NZ) $1,800,000
2016 Colt Mustaaqeem $0 0 0 Redoute's Choice National Colour (SAF) $1,750,000
2016 Colt Unnamed $0 0 0 Frankel (GB) More Strawberries $1,600,000
2016 Colt Eltizaam $0 0 0 Redoute's Choice Top Cuban $1,500,000
2016 Colt Seige of Quebec $0 0 0 Fastnet Rock Rose of Cimmaron $1,200,000
2016 Filly Unnamed $0 0 0 Fastnet Rock Hips Don't Lie (NZ) $1,100,000
2016 Colt Dissolution $0 0 0 Snitzel Family Breakup $1,100,000
2016 Colt Unnamed $0 0 0 Hinchinbrook Al's Magic Miss $1,000,000
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Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

One G1 winner from 38 'Million Dollar Babies' sold at Inglis Easter between 2012-2016.

While the numbers are still poor it's a bit harsh on the 2016 sale horses. Still 1 Gr1 from 29 not great
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Well he's not a G1 performer yet but People's Knight has won $453,275 in Hong Kong so not a total waste of money.
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deejays destiny View Drop Down
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What about the opposite end? Anyone got some cheap purchases from the Sale who have won big?
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Covered extensively in another thread about a month ago, perhaps someone remembers the title?
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Originally posted by TJMitchell TJMitchell wrote:

Originally posted by Red Hare Red Hare wrote:

One G1 winner from 38 'Million Dollar Babies' sold at Inglis Easter between 2012-2016.

While the numbers are still poor it's a bit harsh on the 2016 sale horses. Still 1 Gr1 from 29 not great
Yeah, sorry mate. The first half dozen times I typed that comment, it had included the caveat that the 2016 crop ought to be judged by the $0 and namelessness (i.e. not even close to racing) rather than G1 wins... since there haven't been any 2yo G1s.
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I'd be staggered if the million dollar flop was just an Australian phenomenon... Does anyone know how the US and Euros go?
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I guess you have to look at a yearling sale as a lottery.  The buyer is in it to get a stallion.  Hence the good looks and pedigrees - but as above it doesn't often work out.  

But there is the flip side.  A cheaper older yearling which was sold for about cost and then makes good.  Out comes a younger foal from the dam and the breeder gets a great result.  The trouble is most mares only produce one or two very good foals.  The blue hens are rare indeed.  It's a real problem identifying the best foals.  Looks doesn't all ways add up to that will to win.  But it is far harder to find a cheap really good horse than one in the $100,000 to $500,000 bracket.

Then most of those $1,000,000 lots are part of groups of colts bought.  It may be one of the cheap ones that makes good but that's all it takes and they get well over their money back with syndication for stud.
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The $1 million colts don't need to win a group 1 to break even a return, and with the fillies its a lot more complicated.
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Even if the horse does hit $1M by the time you take out the trainer/jockey 15% and training fees etc you still have a fair way to go.
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James the big boys who play for stallions aren't in it for the prizemoney on the track.  That is a bonus.
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Originally posted by Beliskner Beliskner wrote:

The $1 million colts don't need to win a group 1 to break even a return, and with the fillies its a lot more complicated.
Many of the colts listed above, aren't.
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My point was, if your going to be critical of their million dollar price tag, then you need to accept that prizemoney is not the only way for them to get a return on that money, and they certainly dont have to win a group 1 race to get to that level.

Besides, you have the strongest side of the debate anyway, most of the $1 million dollar colts who are in their 4yo seasons and older are geldings with prizemoney in the 5 figures.

When it comes to horses like Valentia [218k] and Bull Point [552k] who are expensive yearlings now standing at stud, it's more complicated.  Not sure if Zululand was ever gelded.
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Mourinho $36,000 won over $1.3 million to date
Keep serving up the overs please
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Prize money is a consequence of racing well - which all males need to do to get a return on the investment.

As for the hairy bean bag, Wandjina, Sooboog and Zululand are the only ones I know for certain to be intact (and still above the grass). They're all racing well enough to get a return on the investment, be it on the track or in the boudoir.

Whilst it may be a tad unfair on the 2yo crop above, i think it's safe to call 'time' on the 3yo colts. Just the one spring runner amongst them - and War Hero would need to progress beyond a Musswellbrook maiden to make it.

Whatever way you slice it, the top end of the market are abject failures... but it probably doesn't matter, since they rarely exchange that amount of cash. The seller gets their money from the inflated middle band.
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those results are atrocious
 
who puts their hands up at these auctions?
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Originally posted by Beliskner Beliskner wrote:

My point was, if your going to be critical of their million dollar price tag, then you need to accept that prizemoney is not the only way for them to get a return on that money, and they certainly dont have to win a group 1 race to get to that level.

Besides, you have the strongest side of the debate anyway, most of the $1 million dollar colts who are in their 4yo seasons and older are geldings with prizemoney in the 5 figures.

When it comes to horses like Valentia [218k] and Bull Point [552k] who are expensive yearlings now standing at stud, it's more complicated.  Not sure if Zululand was ever gelded.

Zululand raced as an entire in Singapore. Retired from racing and has now been imported back to Australia as of January 2016
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1 from 29 is 3.4% G1 winners.

That is a big percentage a good stallion gets 5% stakes winners. Redoute's Choice runs at 2.6% G1 winners to runners and 2.0% G1 winner to foals.

Sample size is everything here, and also important to note that a fair few of these were;

1. Raced by their vendors
2. Bizarre sales
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Like Hazyview said re: sample size.

Also i know All Too Hard would be just one or two years off 2012, IIRC he was just a tad over $1 million and we know how good he was.
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But then there is an argument that, at $1 million dollars, the G1 strikerate should be a lot higher then the stallion average.

Just how much higher? I don't know.
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I think more than double that of Redoute's Choice is pretty good going?
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