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Snitzel |
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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11 Stakeswinners last season. Equal 3rd with Redoutes Choice. Only Fasten Rock and Exceed and Excel. He goes alright and memories aren't quite that short.
Still expect to see people forking out more for hyped up 1st season sires at the upcoming sales.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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It can happen when a sire looses a lot to stud etc. You have to remember he had quite a few three year old G1 or SW winners retired to stud in recently. So he doesn't have his class horses for the older races. It happened with Bletchingly early on when they retired nearly every stakes winner he had to stud he struggled for a bit before the next generation matured enough.
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Gay3
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Location: Miners Rest Status: Offline Points: 52012 |
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bump
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Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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Maybe my logic is completely flawed, but he would have benefited from all the hype Sizzling have, the way some people talked about him it was like he was some multiple group 1 champion race horse, yes he won the TJ Smith, but his post-2yo form never warranted the type of hype he received IMHO.
Also Wandjina to a lesser degree, hyped up as some super horse, he eventually proved himself a group 1 performer, and apparently is a fantastic type, but again IMO his not at the level i heard some people talk about him. So there is probably that stallion making appeal to him, more so then other sires recently, their's plenty of Redoute's sons around, and too many Fastnet's need the ultimate gear change to gamble on them as a stallion, perhaps Snitzel's are seen as better stallion gamble for owners and studs looking to strike gold. Or i am way off and what i've said is utter gibberish. |
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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Not sure I'm following. I don't see any particular hype horse that Snitzel produced distorting perceptions of his own quality. He's got 70% winners to runners, 7.5% Stakes winners to runners and 6 individual Group 1 winners here in Aust. Thats from 6 full crops of racing age. His numbers are up there with the best and although his $88k stud fee is also up there I reckon he's justified it.
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Beliskner
Champion Joined: 10 Apr 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4236 |
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I was referring to his stud fee, don't get me wrong his definitely one of the countries top sires, but why it's gotten that high could be partly based on what i said, or i could be 100% wrong, i just think he does tend to get colts/stallions that get a bit overhyped.
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Speediskey
Champion Joined: 18 Feb 2014 Status: Offline Points: 4116 |
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Yeah to be honest none of his progeny have really been hyped that much - Wandjina had a little bit before he did anything purely because of his price tag but not hyped at all really. Sizzling was a good Queenslander and thats about it.
I think Snitzel is a top sire, give it time to average out, hes guaranteed to finish higher on the table than he is now, wait for the two year olds to get going.
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Hazyview
Yearling Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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I think Sizzling was what he was - a nice Queensland horse by, what was at the time, a cheap stallion.
Wandjina was probably a genuine top-liner by the end of his career, the All Aged 2nd against a top-of-his-powers Dissident showed that. Would have been interesting to see how he got on as a 4YO, the Australian Guineas form has also worked out well, but alas, the breeding barn called!
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5942 |
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A lot can said of his stallion fee rise, maybe it can be put down to the prices they are bringing at the sales , he seems to be a good producer of nice types and that is a fair start .His Stats are good but looking at the mares they are taking , virtually any willing to part with money ,his stats may drop a little in the future , one can't dismiss the value of his female line maybe NASD is a better option value wise at the moment .
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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The only other stallion in his price bracket is Lonhro. Very similar stud records too. If you drop your price bracket slightly he would be among Pierro, All Too Hard and Sepoy. Reckon he's achieved a fair bit more than them at stud.
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Hazyview
Yearling Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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He's definitely an elite stallion. Comparing to Lonhro, they have a very similar SW and GW %, though Lonhro has two more crops than Snitzel which very much makes me favour Snitzel. Also Snitzel already has more 2YO SW than Lonhro.
He is Mr Commercial.
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Red Hare
Champion Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Location: Victoria Status: Offline Points: 4233 |
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But hey, I also can't understand how people pay $1,000+ for a wrist watch. Snitzel has over 1,057 foals on the ground. Some might suggest that his 2015 book (if it's as big as his last three, leaving 150+ foals) would be the last, before the laws of diminishing returns take over. I wonder if the studs take that into consideration when pricing to a market or turning over their roster?
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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His figures sit a little above al Maher who never had the same opportunity and can be had for not much more than the gst component of snitzel.
Snitzel however is a sales ring darling. |
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Hazyview
Yearling Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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That's kind of a blinkered way of looking at it - you've got to be getting stock (colts and fillies) which appeal to the commercial market, Al Maher is a failure in this sense, especially as his colts need to be gelded!
You would quickly go broke breeding to Al Maher, you'd be ok with Snitzel.
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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Al Maher's stud record is quite good, especially when you look at his price. Not in Snitzel's class though.
As for opportunity, they both started at a similar fee. Al Maher got larger books early on.
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bradjm
Champion Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 6175 |
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Yes as I said snitzel is a sales ring darling No blinkers |
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Hazyview
Yearling Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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Because he produces what the market wants. Al Maher does not. They have similar 'results' but the make up of those results is very different which leads to the difference in the sales ring. It's not the sales ring hyping up Snitzel, more the fact that he produces what this country wants. I think saying 'sales ring darling' is doing him a disservice, that's all.
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lotto7
Champion Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1138 |
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Have to agree with brad here as I think Snitzel is a sales ring darling on the back of results. He is producing the same type of horse that he was earlier in his career but struggled a bit and hence the price drop in service fees. Then came the results and the success in the ring followed. The type has not changed at all just that people will now buy them in the ring because of the results he has had on the track. Don't believe sales ring darling is doing the horse a disservice at all. He is a good stallion, gets results and his progeny is popular in the sales ring. |
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Lordy
Champion Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Sunshine State Status: Offline Points: 13887 |
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I was going into bat for Snitzel in this thread. Even so I can't understand why the market went nutso for his stock at the sales last week.
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5942 |
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Had a Group 1 winner
In Hong Kong today. |
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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With Umatilla in the pedigree he's inbred to Dancing Show 4 f x 3m. Interesting to see that one he beat in maiden in Australia (Winston's Lad) has also made his way to Hong Kong and is also a winner there.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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He has had a very good month of February with a dual HKG1 winner and a G2 & G3 winners in Sydney. Plus four other stakes placed.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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This boy has started this season flying. Three stakes winners in two weeks and lots of stakes placed also. If he can get one or two of his three year olds up over a distance (something which has happened previously) he could go close to winning this season. Likewise I am Invincible has commence with good results. So two stalilons who have been selling exceptionally well have come out firing for the purchases.
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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buyers might of been a better word as I left the er off anyway!
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5942 |
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Had a group winner in Japan over the weekend also .
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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Over $900,000AUS to the winner for that G3 in Japan. Boy they race for some big prizes.
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djebel
Premium Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Status: Offline Points: 53960 |
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reductio ad absurdum
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furious
Champion Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Status: Offline Points: 25179 |
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It nice to know the little boys can make the grade. You don't have to be a big big boy.
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acacia alba
Champion Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Status: Offline Points: 41536 |
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Golly he has made the grade alright !
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animals before people.
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goldey
Champion Joined: 29 Dec 2012 Location: cairns Status: Offline Points: 5942 |
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His stats as a broodmare sire are quiet freakish also .
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