Join up at Crownbet - Click here - Crownbet is Thoroughbred Village’s premier betting partner - Join here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - First Light Racing charged by Racing Victoria
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Click here for the Thoroughbred Village Home Page. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. For horseracing tips, follow @Villagebet on Twitter. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.

First Light Racing charged by Racing Victoria

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Sir Gov View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 1954
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: First Light Racing charged by Racing Victoria
    Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 6:38pm
from punters.com.au

Horse racing syndicator First Light Racing and two of its directors, Tim Wilson and Sam Kilkenny, have been charged by Racing Victoria for failing to disclose a conflict of interest in Product Disclosure Statements. 

Racing Victoria stewards have issued three charges against First Light Racing Pty Ltd and four charges against both Wilson and Kenny in relation to two syndicated horses.

On both occasions, the PDS for the horses being syndicated failed to disclose the original purchase and any conflict of interest in regards to the purchase. 

The first charge relates to Arizona Belle (High Chaparral x Danzottoa 2014 filly) who was originally purchased for $43,000 at the 2015 Gold Coast National Weanling Sale by Paul Willetts as agent for Star Band, an associated entity of FLR. 

Arizona Belle was then acquired by FLR in March 2016 as a yearling for $60,000 from Bell River Thoroughbreds Pty Ltd as agent for Star Band at the 2016 Inglis Melbourne Yearling Sale. 

The second charge relates to a Charge Forward x Trois Couleurs colt which was first purchased for $26,000 by FLR, through Willetts and employee Ashleigh Dowley at the 2015 Gold Coast National Weanling Sale. 

FLR then acquired the colt as a yearling from Widden Stud as agent for FLR at the 2018 Gold Coast Yearling Sale for $80,000. 

In issuing the charge, RV stewards contend that the PDS contained no reference to the fact that FLR owned the colt prior to the 2018 Gold Coast Yearling Sale. 

Wilson and Kilkenny are facing two charges of making a false or misleading statement or declaration and two charges of improper, dishonest and/or dishonourable action or practice. 

The charges will be heard by the Racing and Disciplinary (RAD) Board on a date to be fixed.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links
Click here to view the promotions at Crownbet.


Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 35722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 8:31pm
So, Does this ruin their reputation and business or is this typical horse racing shenanigans and will be business as usual  ? 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Lordy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Sunshine State
Status: Offline
Points: 13400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 9:36pm
as Far as shenanigans go with yearling sales and syndicators go this isn’t that big. Damages the reputation but doesn’t ruin it.

I imagine those that purchase share in these particular horses may be asking a few blunt questions.
Back to Top
Sir Gov View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 1954
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 9:40pm
We shouldn’t accept these practices irrespective of the severity.

They are downright unethical and illegal.

The yearling sales also need a cleanout.
Back to Top
Lordy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Sunshine State
Status: Offline
Points: 13400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 10:20pm
Any precedents for punishment of this kind of thing? Do they cop a fine or are their various licences under threat?
Back to Top
Spearmint View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1358
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spearmint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 9:21am
It is definitely not a good look to buy them as weanlings and then through agents buy them back as yearlings. It just looks like they a setting a false value on them to make a profit by syndicating them at an inflated price.

On the other hand I guess their explanation could be that after buying them as weanlings, they then put them on the yearling market to get a market price in a public auction.

They were then the last bidders at the sale price and therefore had a genuine market value at a public auction.

This of course presumes they did not run them up to that price at the auction
"Nothing in the world is so powerful as an idea whose time has come"
Back to Top
Lordy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Sunshine State
Status: Offline
Points: 13400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Spearmint Spearmint wrote:

It is definitely not a good look to buy them as weanlings and then through agents buy them back as yearlings. It just looks like they a setting a false value on them to make a profit by syndicating them at an inflated price.

On the other hand I guess their explanation could be that after buying them as weanlings, they then put them on the yearling market to get a market price in a public auction.

They were then the last bidders at the sale price and therefore had a genuine market value at a public auction.

This of course presumes they did not run them up to that price at the auction

Looking at the respective prices it’s quite possible that occurred. Nothing at all wrong with that. One of them $46k as a weanling and $60k as a yearling, would hardly cover costs. If they wanted to run up the price then they didn’t do it that well.

Problem is not disclosing it in the PDS, hence the charge.
Back to Top
Shawy38 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Status: Online
Points: 6087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 10:42am
They knew the rules.
No sympathy.
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 2500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 11:28am
No shortage of competitors and former 1%ers lining up on Twitter to dig the boots in.

My one and only ownership experience was with FLR. My one takeaway from that time was that my next share would go through a trainer direct. Although, to be fair, that assessment would almost certainly have been influenced by TBV.

I never thought they were dodgy, I just saw them as rank amateurs that couldn't organise a root in a brothel. I don't think they're smart enough to be 'horse traders'.
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 2500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 11:36am
So much smoke and mirrors in the sales game. 

I doubt old-mate McDonald needed Ashleigh, on behalf of FLR, to put her hand up for the $825k Savabeel colt at NZ Premier a few years back... but having that sort of loot flow through your account in full and on time must do wonders for the credit rating.
Back to Top
Lordy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Sunshine State
Status: Offline
Points: 13400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

They knew the rules.
No sympathy.

Nobody offering sympathy. They broke the rules and will be penalised for it. The level of penalty is the only thing currently in question.
Back to Top
ThreeBears View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Daylesford
Status: Offline
Points: 2354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:11pm
It just looks like they a setting a false value on them to make a profit by syndicating them at an inflated price.
As Lordy pointed out they hardly made a profit on one and just made a profit on the other. I've seen better run up jobs many times over. Do people even know the costs involved with raising the horse and putting it through public auction? 
Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 7281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

It just looks like they a setting a false value on them to make a profit by syndicating them at an inflated price.
As Lordy pointed out they hardly made a profit on one and just made a profit on the other. I've seen better run up jobs many times over. Do people even know the costs involved with raising the horse and putting it through public auction? 
Doesn't matter it's easier to syndicate for more using the higher value as a selling point.
If this wasn't the case why bother considering the expense? Just passing on another unnecessary expense to owners.
Back to Top
Red Hare View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Location: Victoria
Status: Offline
Points: 2500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

It just looks like they a setting a false value on them to make a profit by syndicating them at an inflated price.
As Lordy pointed out they hardly made a profit on one and just made a profit on the other. I've seen better run up jobs many times over. Do people even know the costs involved with raising the horse and putting it through public auction? 
The Charge Forward colt increased it's value $54k in six months. 

If that's 'hardly' or 'just', the game is cactus.
Back to Top
Shawy38 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Status: Online
Points: 6087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Originally posted by Shawy38 Shawy38 wrote:

They knew the rules.
No sympathy.

Nobody offering sympathy. They broke the rules and will be penalised for it. The level of penalty is the only thing currently in question.


Okay then
Back to Top
Shawy38 View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Status: Online
Points: 6087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:37pm
captain obvious
Back to Top
ThreeBears View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Daylesford
Status: Offline
Points: 2354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:47pm
Doesn't matter it's easier to syndicate for more using the higher value as a selling point.
If this wasn't the case why bother considering the expense? Just passing on another unnecessary expense to owners.
Again what's the cost of raising the horse from weanling to yearling? Might have been same value as price increase at sales.
 
As for  the other one I did say they made a win after costs. Can you read? Tell us the cost of transport to and from sales, rearing costs, agency fees and sales costs.
 
I'm not defending them I'm merely pointing out the insignificant gains compared to some other startling and obvious run ups over the years. I won't mention those  on this forum by name. Litigation abounds.
Back to Top
ThreeBears View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Daylesford
Status: Offline
Points: 2354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:48pm
Second part directed at Red Hare's post Sneck not you.
Back to Top
Lordy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Sunshine State
Status: Offline
Points: 13400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 2:00pm
Hard to accept the excuse that it was “an inadvertent oversight”. They forgot they bought the horses from themselves?
Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 17199
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 2:06pm
Much like politicians forgetting that they purchased investment properties worth millions. I guess when you have numerous properties it's easy to lose track. Amazing how many people have memory problems when it suits.
Back to Top
Aurelius View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 4191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 11:11am
Scottish Rogue Horse Profile

ProfileStatsResults

Scottish Rogue Breeding

Sire: Rothesay

Dam: Ten Eighty (NZL)

Sire of Dam: Volksraad (GBR)

Lot: 266 - 2017 Inglis NSW Classic Yearling Sale

Vendor: Glenlogan Park, Innisplain, Qld

Buyer: First Light Racing / McEvoy Mitchell Racing / Paul Willets Bloodstock

Sale Price: $45,000

Scottish Rogue OwnersFirst Light Racing Pty Ltd

Back to Top
ThreeBears View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Daylesford
Status: Offline
Points: 2354
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 2:10pm
Amazing how many people have memory problems when it suits.
True Mouse. It's like the mental illness plague before the courts. Timely and fashionable.
Back to Top
pnclick View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 675
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 4:52pm
They appear to have put them through the sales to get a current (yearling) value on them as it makes it easier to justify the share value etc..., albeit they run up the price, but as pointed out earlier, they are not excessive increases in value from weanling to yearling. Its the buy it on March 10 for $50,000 and sell it on March 15 for $9,000 per 10% share that annoys me more than anything...

The issue is non-discloser. The individuals (linked to FLR) had obviously decided to buy the said weanlings with intent to syndicate through FLR at a higher price, and pushed that price even higher by going through the auction. Would love to know the under bidders, which unfortunately can NEVER be known...
Back to Top
Sir Gov View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 1954
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 8:30am
Originally posted by pnclick pnclick wrote:

They appear to have put them through the sales to get a current (yearling) value on them as it makes it easier to justify the share value etc..., albeit they run up the price, but as pointed out earlier, they are not excessive increases in value from weanling to yearling. Its the buy it on March 10 for $50,000 and sell it on March 15 for $9,000 per 10% share that annoys me more than anything...

The issue is non-discloser. The individuals (linked to FLR) had obviously decided to buy the said weanlings with intent to syndicate through FLR at a higher price, and pushed that price even higher by going through the auction. Would love to know the under bidders, which unfortunately can NEVER be known...

Another reason why all bidders are registered, however all bids should be tracked as well. 

There also needs to be some mechanism to ensure run ups & paybacks can be monitored.  Not sure how practical that is......however the sale houses should be focused on protecting investors.  If a Four Corners steps & someone rats out some of the processes (I believe both would be long term positives with short term pain) - it will be a disaster for the industry.
Back to Top
pnclick View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 675
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2018 at 11:22pm
Wouldn't be that hard to do. Give registered bidders a bidding card and the spotters could call that number out so it's registered.

The worse run-up was Black Caviar's half brother. Everyone in the joint seemed to know it was going to go for $5m, and the well known under bidder pushed it up to that figure....
Back to Top
Lordy View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2010
Location: Sunshine State
Status: Offline
Points: 13400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2018 at 6:53am
Put them all through eBay
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.