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Fiorente At Stud

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kavg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 4:52pm
And just for you Djebel, Alesandro has Riverman in his dam.
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kavg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 4:55pm
Alessandro that is. Also has another dose of Never Bend-ie. two instances of Never Bend in his dam.

My point being that there would be a lot less horses with Riverman in the dam side or even Never Bend than having Bahram or Persian Gulf in the dam side and the percentage of winners and stakeswinners would be much higher with Riverman/Never bend when crossed with Fiorente. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HH88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 1:22pm
Crikey you blokes are tough.
On the site for no time at all and have already been accused of:
(1) Being a Nationalist.
(2) Being a plagiarist.
(3) And now given to exaggeration.
Trend Oxford English Dictionary
(Noun)
A general direction in which something is developing.

So if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a trend - and no inverted commas required.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 2:40pm
Take it easy H.

My point is that there are a lot of dams that have got bahram in their pedigree. Statistical analysis is needed to see if it is a trend or an aberration.

More to the point as I have stated a couple of times, more time is needed to sort oout whether these 3yo's and the younger ones are any good. At this stage only Stars of carrum has put his hand up but he still has to come up as an autumn 3yo. Alessandro is showing some promise and all the others still have to step up.

But there maybe a better trend with Riverman or Never bend that are present in a lot fewer broodmares. Again what I am suggesting is a trend that I have noticed but it needs to also stand up to statistical analysis.

This is a forum for ideas and discussions to hopefully help people make a better or more informed decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 2:42pm
I am the new owner of a Fiorente colt and his dam Calaxna (Linamix) an Irish bred mare full sister to the Irish Stallion and stakes winner Carlotamix.
They will arrive sometime this month, looking like they have come from a drought area in Victoria, they will certainly pick up here in the Northern Rivers of NSW.
 
I am interested in the forumites thoughts of this mating?
CARLAXNA (IRE)
 Grey mare Foaled 2004 

Sire:
Linamix
1987
MendezBellyphaLyphard
Belga
17-b
16-b
Miss CarinaCaro
Miss Pia
3-o
23-b
LunadixBretonRelko
La Melba
16-g
4-i
LutineAlcide
Mona
2-f
6-e
Dam:
Carlitta
1996
OlympioNaskraNasram
Iskra
11-d
3-e
Carols ChristmasWhitesburg
Light Verse
12-e
8-d
CreamerySecretariatBold Ruler
Somethingroyal
8-d
2-s
Cream 'n CrimsonVaguely Noble
Crimson Lass
1-d
5-b
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:05pm
Which trainer could do such a colt justice ?

None off the top of my head.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:05pm
Clare Cunningham


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:07pm
I am not a pedigree buff, like some of the real experts here.    I am just saying OOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Secretariat on the dam side , love it already Thumbs Up
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Which trainer could do such a colt justice ?

None off the top of my head.

Gaj herself has a history of producing staying winners from modest stock, so this youngster should get every chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 3:58pm
Carlaxna's dam was a Listed winner over 9 furlongs and has produced a Gp 1 winner over 1600m.

Reckon you might be on a winner with this colt Gaj.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 5:21pm
Thank you Second Chance, you are very kind, I will be doing my best that's for sure. Slowly improving our stock as we go along.
Acacia Thank you, Secretariat always a favourite..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 7:43pm
Good Luck with this horse.  I will be following, thats for sure Thumbs Up
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Which trainer could do such a colt justice ?

None off the top of my head.


Gaj herself has a history of producing staying winners from modest stock, so this youngster should get every chance.


Reading other threads I got the impression Gaj might be a trainer.

Good luck Gaj.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 11:46pm
What rock have you been living under Djebel ???
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 1:56am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

What rock have you been living under Djebel ???


Ayres ?


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HH88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 11:45am
Thanks for the response.
The essential point about his winners with Bahram in the dam line is those presences are female strains or daughters of Bahram (ie to balance Fiorentes male strain)
For pedigree analysts clues like this are gold when trying to work out what mares will best suit a particular stallion.
Stars of Carrum franks the Bahram clue perfectly by bringing that line forward one generation, importantly again, through an opposite strain and for good measure reinforcing it by adding the full sister.
Fiorentes other winners have only just cleared Maiden ranks and it may well transpire a line of Bahram on its own is not strong enough to enable them to significantly progress.
Stallions often have more than one line they are strongest too, so Bahram does not own it exclusively.
Time, more winners and further analysis will tell.

However casting the net a bit wider provides a little more substance to  the argument.
Here in NZ we have Vadamos (Monsun out of Celebre Vadala) standing his second season at Rich Hill Stud. He is 5m x 8f to Persian Gulf.
Another of Monsuns sire sons is Manduro. He is 3m x 4m to Dschingis Khan who is by Tamerlane, in turn  by Persian Gulf.
One of his best sons is Vazirabad - 23 starts, 15 wins, 6 places and $3,381,774.
He is 6m x 7m x 7f to Persian Gulf.
Charity Line one of his fillies - 7 starts for 6 wins is 5m x 6m x 7f to Tamerlane 

In the interests of balance there are other good racers sired by Monsun who do not have presences of Bahram/Persian Gulf/Tamerlane in the dam line.
What is required now is to work out what those lines are.
Nature hides her secrets well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HH88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 12:54pm
The old saying goes no owner of an unraced 2yo ever committed suicide and you may have cause for some optimism here.
Linamix is the second damsire of Vadamos - 20 starts, 8 wins, 5 places $1,233,006.
He is also the sire of the dam of Vazirabad - 23 starts, 15 wins, 6 places $3,381,774.
Linamix's fourth dam is by Persian Gulf.
Your colt is 6m x 7f Persian Gulf.
Best of luck.
HH88
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 1:47pm
Thank you HH88, Apart from Manighar I was not familiar with Linamix as a stallion, when I saw the mare's page I looked into him and noted he was France's leading Brood mare sire in 2012, among other things she was very desirable to me especially with the bonus of a colt by Fiorente.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 5:14pm
Fun Fact: The mare of the moment - that being the recently rescued half sister to Mr Stunning (Go The Cats - Purrealist x With Fervour) ticks many of the boxes that would test this Bahram theory.

The great Eau de Toile line carries Doubleton through her grandson Jekyll, who is the sire of Eau de Toile's 2nd dam. So, the daughters of Filante, Kenny's Best Pal, Redente, Benicio and Purrealist would be some chance - and not so expensive to test.... though it would ave to be one dominant gene.

With Fervour's 2nd dam is by Saros, who is of the Precipitation sireline and, more to the point, is a great great grandson of Persian Gulf through his 3rd dam, Margaret Ann.

Now, that's one lucky cat. 
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