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Finland's failed basic income trial exposes timele

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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2018 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Any welfare program which either

A. Hands out money when a person needs it, or

B. Hands it out when the recipient is less likely to add value to society,

is flawed.

If the governments started an account with $10,000 for every baby when they were born, and the part of the parents income was compulsorily entered into the account each fortnight, then by the time the child turned 21 they would have enough for a deposit for a house in Sydney or to buy one anywhere else in the country. At least this way they have a financial base which they can live their life with.

The other way is for governments to build homes (which they already do), offer loans to parents with no deposit and no interest, making it a financially neutral loan for the parents (in other words the rent from the tenants could cover the loan's monthly payment).

The problem with welfare currently, is that you are spending bad money after bad, and not getting any value from the recipients, who can offer something to the community.

As Kerry Packer once said, he did not mind paying taxes, but did not pay taxes to see governments waste the money.

It is similar to subsidiing gastric band operations for people over 20 kilos overweight. A study showed before the last election that the federal government spent $40,000 a year on each individual.

Now the operation costs $20,000.

So which do you think is more financially viable, spending $40,000 a year for at least 20 years, or a one off payment of $20,000.

Oh well what do we know!

I like some of those ideas VOYAGER, and agree with the sentiment!

It would certainly make people think harder before they chose their parents!LOLLOLLOL

Seriously though, that is the issue, we have created a whole segment of our society that has accepted that the family business will always be welfare dependency, never aspire to anything more, never contribute to society, and other people's success is to be viewed with scorn and disdain ... and I'm not just referring to the Muslim enclaves. Life is just too good for many of those Housos who are receiving the Professional Surfer's Scholarship, as we used to call it!Wink 

...oh and it's the Green/ALP Collusion's politics of envy and entitlement that helps perpetrate the myth that our society can survive with more and more parasites.Dead
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Afros View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Afros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2018 at 8:45am
Originally posted by Dr E Dr E wrote:

... and there you have it ... poor people make these judgements about the wealthy, with no understanding or experience whatsoever.Ermm

For rich people, tax is just a way of keeping score ... you know, you have to earn it before you can minimise it ... not a problem that confronts more than half of the population!

One of the wealthiest people I ever know personally, loved writing out a cheque each month to the ATO.

As he said ... "if you're not paying tax, your're not making money!"Big smile


I think you've missed the point as usual. If you hand over more then you're required to legally your not being smart no matter if your income before deductions is 40k or 400mil.
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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2018 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

Considering one of his most famous quotes in relation to tax avoidance was 'anyone who pays more tax then they have to is an idiot' I doubt he would have been happy to pay tax!

No, this is exactly what you said - can't misconstrue your envy, OR your error.Embarrassed

btw, his comments were in relation to tax minimisation - tax avoidance is illegal.
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 10:48pm
Give-People-Money-How-a-Universal-Basic-Income-Would-End-Poverty-Revolutionize


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 11:28pm
Can you expand?
What is, and how much, is a universal income?
Revolutionize work, into what? and how? automation is big, so where are the new jobs?

Heres a thought....do away with superannuation, subsidies and see how the world changes.

Definitely less greed.
 
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Dr E View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 12:46am
There already is a Universal income - it's $zero.

If you get a job or start a business, work hard, you can earn more!

If that doesn't suit you, become an economic immigrant and move to Australia.
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:53am

Where our migrants come from

NEW figures have revealed where Australia's two million permanent migrants have come from since 2000.

The Australian Bureau of Statistics has released new data that identifies India, England and China as some of the top birth countries of the country's migrants.

It has also revealed that more than half of them are buying or trying to buy their own homes.There were about 2.2 million permanent migrants in Australia in 2016, who arrived between January 1, 2000, and August 9, 2016, according to the 2016 Australian Census and Migrants Integrated Dataset.

The report links data gathered from the 2016 Census and from the Department of Social Services.

It found 58 per cent (1.2 million people) had been granted a skilled visa, 32 per cent (683,603) entered via the family stream and just 10 per cent (214,656 people) were on humanitarian visas.

The data also revealed where the migrants were coming from.

For those coming to Australia on the skilled visa, the top country of birth was India (19 per cent), followed by England and China.

When it comes to family migrants, the top country of birth was China (14 per cent), then England and India.

For those on humanitarian visas, Iraq was the top country of birth (18 per cent), followed by Afghanistan and Myanmar.

About 78 per cent of those applying for humanitarian visas were offshore applicants. They were the most likely category of migrants to apply for their visas overseas, compared to those on the family stream (72 per cent) and skilled migrants (60 per cent).

The figures also revealed that about 54 per cent of permanent migrants aged 15 years and older, were buying or owned their own home.

Migrants in the family stream were the most likely to own their home outright (14 per cent), followed by skilled migrants (8 per cent) and humanitarian migrants (4.7 per cent).

The data comes as migration numbers in Australia hit a 10-year low.Liberal senator Dean Smith this week called for a review into Australia's population policy as the nation approached 25 million residents.

But Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said Australia's immigration and population growth was constantly under review.

He also said the Federal Government was building new projects, like the Western Sydney Airport, to meet rising demand.

"We are getting actively involved, we're building infrastructure ourselves," he told 3AW radio in Melbourne.

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton said last week that the annual intake of permanent migrants fell by 20,000 last year to 162,000, with both skilled and family visas down.

This was the lowest in a decade and attributable to tighter vetting procedures, he said, with dishonest applications in the Government's crosshairs.

"We're making sure that people who do become part of our Australian family are coming here to work, not to lead a life on welfare," he told reporters in Brisbane.

"If you have a robust migration program like we have, and you are assured of the entrants coming in through the program, that they are going to be productive, that they are going to work hard, they aren't going to lead a life on welfare … you will see increased economic benefit."

Immigration remains a talking point in Australia, amid concern about jobs and overcrowding in major cities.

The Labor Opposition welcomed the drop in migration numbers but said the Government must do more to help those in offshore detention, where hundreds still remain in limbo."We have seen suicides, we've seen a range of mental health conditions being identified and the Government has got that element of the policy wrong," senior Labor MP Anthony Albanese said.

Migrants trying to enter Australia by sea have been sent to camps on Papua New Guinea's Manus Island or on Nauru in the Pacific for processing, with even those found to be genuine refugees barred from Australia.

The policy has been criticised by rights groups as well as the United Nations, which has slammed Canberra's harsh treatment of asylum-seekers who arrive by boat.

Dutton defended the policy as a deterrent against people-smugglers and added that it allowed Australia to offer refuge to those seeking asylum through legitimate channels.

"Last year we had the biggest offshore intake (of refugees) into our country that we've seen in decades," he said. "We did that because we've secured our borders."

Australia's humanitarian intake - which it excludes from its permanent migration count - was close to 22,000 for its 2016-17 program, which included a special assistance provision for 8200 people affected.by Charis Chang with wires

19th Jul 2018 7:08 PM
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Isaac soloman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 9:54am
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