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Expensive Flops

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well_rated View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote well_rated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2010 at 9:44pm
Octy's brother sold for a record at the time, Lee Freedman had it, couldn't beat the pony home in jump outs, went to stud without a start, i think stands for very little now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morgan Dollar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 5:18am
Originally posted by andynr123 andynr123 wrote:

Here's the list of horses that have been sold for over $2m between 2006 and 2010:

Nodoubt Deja - no info
Sakib - 2 starts for 1 win at Scone and a third at Wyong
Saperavi - 4 starts for a win at Ashburton and a third in a Listed race at Ashburton (NZ)
Allied Force - 15 starts for 3 wins at Bendigo and Moonee Valley (x2), 4 minor placings
Perfect Persuasion - 10 starts for a win at Kyneton and a third in the Talindert Stakes
Bint El Noor - unraced
Master of Design - 9 starts for 4 wins at Seymour, Ballarat, Moonee Valley and Belmont, 3 minor placings, now racing in Perth
Mount Olympus - 5 starts for 1 win at Newcastle, 1 second, now gelded
Time Thief - 7 starts for 2 wins, one at MV, one in the Zeditave Stakes at Caulfield, 4 minor placings including 2nd in the Caulfield Guineas, 2nd in the Guineas Prelude, 2nd in the Danehill Stakes, 3rd in the Australia Stakes, sent to Dubai for Godolphin but did not race, now retired to stud
Libertarian - 21 starts for 3 wins at Kembla Grange, Warwick Farm and Ipswich, 6 minor placings, now gelded and racing out of the Gold Coast
El Cairo - 20 starts for 1 win at Hawkesbury, 4 minor placings, now gelded
Seventh Reason - 13 starts for 2 wins at Kembla and Canterbury, 3 minor placings, trialled at Albury two weeks ago so may be based down there now?
Sun Ruler - 12 starts for 2 wins at Avondale and Te Rapa, 4 minor placings
Movin' Out - 8 starts for 1 win at Newcastle, 2 minor placings
Estee - 23 starts for 3 wins at Sandown, Caulfield and in the Adelaide Guineas at Morphettville, 5 placings including the Australasian Oaks and the Wakeful Stakes
L'heritier - 6 starts for 1 placing, now racing in Macau
Killy - unraced
Metallurgical - 11 starts for 1 win at Eagle Farm, 4 placings, now gelded
Shoot Through - 12 starts for 1 win at Doomben, 1 placing, now gelded
Leicester Square - 9 starts for 3 wins at Scone and Muswellbrook (x2), 1 placing, now gelded
Royal Battalion - unraced

Very, very interesting indeed...
 
 
Nice work on the stats - thanks
 
very interesting read thats for sure..
Go The Dollar..!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fritta101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 6:14am
Allied Force wa the one of hayes that I was thinking of, not Equivocal, Thanks Andy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mowie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 6:25am
would of thought The Comedian is a epic failure atm.... won just over 60k an went for a mint,
an is a Gelding ouch!!
chris Armstrong waller, *drugs are bad mkay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nocturnal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 6:31am
Watsons Bay A 1.2 mill (fr memory)Royal academy Gelding won $128k most of his 14 wins have been in kalgoorlie
The only problem with backing winners ? You never have enough on....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 6:32am
interesting list Andy.
 
They are all failures, I guess only Time Thief got decent black type and can recoup his initial cost.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 6:40am
What do you guys think of Rockstardom? colt by Gallilleo / Makybe Diva with Danny O'Brien.
 
He might get a 2000m race against his 3yo peers, but once he is 4 he has to race to at least a mile and a half to get going, but thats where the big money is nowadays.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coat Puller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 7:17am
What was the one Bart had in the mid to late eighties.
 
Fortunato or something similar. Think it cost 1.5 mill. A record at the time and not that long after Paint The Stars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lotto7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 7:21am
In my opinion one of the biggest flops would have to be Pillar Of Hercules (Dean Watt Dynamic Syndications) as a tried horse for $1.6m or $1.7m, doing buggar on the track after his purchase and then being sold at auction for less than $50k. (Hope he does well at stud for his new owners). You hear about the success of the big syndicators but they make some huge mistakes as well. What really irked me was Dynamic flogging off a relation to Pillar Of Hercules and boasting about his $1.6m price tag although they had already sold him for less than $50k! And this is allowed by the authorities. Lost any and all creditability after this stunt and makes it hard for the good syndicators.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wortel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 10:15am
If mug punting is backing a favourite is buying a sales topper mug ownership? Tongue
 
Surely everybody knows by now that you're more likely to get the next big thing for under $100k than over $1mill?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Campaspe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 10:25am
What about Changingoftheguard?  Purchased by Hayes from Aiden O'Brien, scratched from the Melbourne Cup on race morning (I think?), one run in the Autumn runs second-last, then they decide to geld him and he dies during the op.  Ouch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 10:30am
The op probably saved them a fortune. I'm assuming he was insured for the sum paid.
Sunline...simply supreme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shakamaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 10:36am
Andy, can you find out the purchase prices for all Group 1' winners this year, or at least the Spring carnival?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 10:40am
Would like to see the stats.
 
I think the topliners are the ones in the 100K to 250K bracket
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 11:27am
very interesting stuff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 11:29am
Andy's list pretty much goes to show the chance of winning back anywhere near your purchase price on these expensive yearlings.
 
I don't think horses such as GOLDTOWN, VON COSTA DE HERO and WATSON'S BAY should be referred to as flops, more so very stupid prices paid for them by people with obviously too much money.
 
Goldtown was showing promise early on in Sydney, as did Watson's Bay in Melbourne. And I think alot of owners woud love to have horses win as much.
 
Waterhouse had one called GERONIMO (1 Million purhcase), which was subsequently purchased (for about 10k) by one of Eric Musgroves clients after a few starts in sydney. Was chatting to the 'new' owner who told me she'd got a real bargain. Not really, it was so slow, Musgrove wouldn't even let it race in his name and never won a cent in prizemoney for the new owner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 2:38pm
Probably too early yet, but Mutamayez?
 
Looks like he walked out of Gais stable and joined Coyle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andynr123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Shakamaker Shakamaker wrote:

Andy, can you find out the purchase prices for all Group 1' winners this year, or at least the Spring carnival?


Yeah I will, I'll do spring carnival first and work back.

Black Caviar - $210k
Wall Street - $100k
Brazilian Pulse - $26k
Americain - $225k (not as a yearling obviously)
Sacred Choice - $40k
Lion Tamer - not sold
Star Witness - $150k
So You Think - $110k
Descarado - withdrawn from yearling sale, sold to Gai through private sale
Yosei - passed in at $14.5k, reserve $15k
Anacheeva - $110k
More Joyous - not sold
Zipping - $190k
Herculian Prince - not sold
Captain Sonador - $30k
Secret Admirer - passed in at $38k, reserve $40k
Erewhon - not sold
Hay List - not sold?
Response - $50k

Any I've forgotten?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watarush Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 3:13pm
dont really get too much in to the purchasing side of horses etc but one that comes to mind would be pillar of hercules. massive court room battles and bidding and so much hype. what did he end up going for? 1.8 mil was it? whats he won in stakes. absolute dud
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fairest One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 3:16pm

Cheers Andy interesting.

 
Cmon Apparitions!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andynr123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by watarush watarush wrote:

dont really get too much in to the purchasing side of horses etc but one that comes to mind would be pillar of hercules. massive court room battles and bidding and so much hype. what did he end up going for? 1.8 mil was it? whats he won in stakes. absolute dud


Mentioned by lotto7 about 10 posts up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shakamaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2010 at 3:28pm
Thanks Andy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 6:05am
Not sure if he actually went through a sale or not but I remember a very close relation (if not a full brother) to Kingston Town racing in the early-mid 80's..No doubt would have commanded a huge premium but was an abysmal flop and an absolute nutter into the bargain..I remember being at Canterbury one day where he started fav (again), was leading to the furlong, then proceeded to jump the rail, eventually crashing through it..Not sure if he ever raced again after that display
 
John H may be able to help with the name...Think it was 'Private' something or other.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andynr123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 6:38am
Well there was Private Thoughts, a full brother to Kingston Town, couldn't call him a flop though, he won two black type races (although compared to the price, he may have been a flop).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockinconi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 6:45am
Horse called Prague sold for $1.2 million about 6 years ago and had a couple of runs for Hayes before being re- sold through a mixed sale for about $6000.
 
Has had 34 starts for 2 minor placings and $7945 in prizemoney. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingoath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 6:09pm
Grand Jardin may have turned the corner this prep with his new trainer over in Perth. His run just now was a cracker.
Kingoath's Stable - Zadon, Spalato, Able Friend, Signoff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 6:09pm
Are the 2 Sydney 2yo winners today considered cheapies ?




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Apprentice Punter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2010 at 6:45pm
The Herald Sun did a table the other week about AFL draft position and average games played.  I'd be interested to see the average prizemoney stats for horses purchased for under $10k, $10-$30K, $30k-$50k and so on. 


I'm a hack punter with a blog. Feel free to read it and rip on me/ give me advice/feedback/and or abuse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Insider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2010 at 6:44am
Originally posted by andynr123 andynr123 wrote:

Originally posted by Shakamaker Shakamaker wrote:

Andy, can you find out the purchase prices for all Group 1' winners this year, or at least the Spring carnival?


Yeah I will, I'll do spring carnival first and work back.

Black Caviar - $210k
Wall Street - $100k
Brazilian Pulse - $26k
Americain - $225k (not as a yearling obviously)
Sacred Choice - $40k
Lion Tamer - not sold
Star Witness - $150k
So You Think - $110k
Descarado - withdrawn from yearling sale, sold to Gai through private sale
Yosei - passed in at $14.5k, reserve $15k
Anacheeva - $110k
More Joyous - not sold
Zipping - $190k
Herculian Prince - not sold
Captain Sonador - $30k
Secret Admirer - passed in at $38k, reserve $40k
Erewhon - not sold
Hay List - not sold?
Response - $50k

Any I've forgotten?
Bet the boys from Coolmore, Arrowfield, Vinery & co do not stick this list up in their barn at the sales. The high prices are and have always been total rorts and stitch ups of wealthy owners. Take a wealthy new owner, a high profile trainer and high profile stud and you get a great sale. It would be interesting to see how many of the sale toppers were purchased by rich newbies Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2010 at 10:16am
Race 6 at Broadmeadow on Saturday.
 
Expensive field fighting out for $9100 in prizemoney
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