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Echuca horse sales

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Gay3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 11:02am
Yes, I'm pretty sure Feelaway is he & Sherel bought both Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 11:43am
Originally posted by BlackKnight BlackKnight wrote:

Persian Mist was bought by the (until today) owner/trainer at a weanling sale in 2011, but this is obviously all the work of evil syndicate members. Have I got that right?

No, you havnt.
I know of some very good syndicates.
I also know of a couple, with a big turn over of horses, with members that do not have a clue what happened to their horse when it vanished off the track.  20 to 30 people in one I knew about, and none of them had a clue, after paying more than a sensible price for a share, as well. A couple I spoke to did not even know you could look up what the horse cost, at the sales !!!Cry
These type of people need to be educated !!!  Or at least steered into reputable syndicates .
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 11:56am
Absolutely agree with you AA. No wonder trainers have been ripping off clients, it's probably been going on for years. People just throw money at the horse because it's all about winning. If it doesn't win they couldn't give a stuff about it and just dump it and buy a new one. No respect for the animal these days. I treat all my animals as if they are my own kids, they all have personalities and I could never just dump them and drive off. How do people do that?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 12:05pm
I don't know who makes the rules for syndicators, but i would really like to see some sort of rule or policy or whatever, that makes it so syndicators have to make sure, or at the very least make an effort, to make sure a horse they are selling does not end up being sold to the doggers.

My understanding that most syndicators sell through either Inglis or MM, as opposed to a private sale? So maybe they need to set a high enough reserve to rule out doggers, or [and i know it's a crazy idea] give the horse for free to an organization that does rehoming, or someone who wants to do eventing, shows etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 12:31pm
I know of at least 2 syndicators who now set aside a small percentage for their horses to be reschooled & then homed, Kristen Mannings' do & I'm sorry I've forgotten the others, possibly Michael Costasbut I reckon it's a super idea Smile. Promotion & awareness are the keys. What goes thru' Echuca is only a micro snap of happenings throughout the country. Vic. alone also have Pakenham Benalla, Hamilton & Bairnesdale sales with some horses being recognised in attendance regularly as dealers play the merry go round.
The number of even well bred, registered pony youngstock is atrocious too with breeders obviously wrongly assuming they'll go to loving homes as kids ponies.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote deejays destiny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 12:35pm
Grand Syndicates do a very similar thing Gay, small surcharge on your fees to help the horse once it retires from racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fairest One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 1:19pm
I may be naive but I was recently told by Inglis that reserves are set at a level to deter doggers. I think from memory at the broodmare sale it was something like $500. 
Cmon Apparitions!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 1:58pm
Meat price is up & they usually in good nick at the TB auctions but for PR reasons, they buy for the doggers Wink
Bella Belluci, a lovely Flying Spur mare whose Good Journey yearling ($50k) I have in the '16 comp, trained by DKW, went for $400 at last years' Adelaide MM to a plasma seller who then moves them on to Peterborough.
Thankfully, she too was saved Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 3:05pm
While I agree with the sentiments expressed here I really think people are focusing on the wrong end of the chain in looking for a solution.

In my opinion there are simply too many horses of all breeds born every year and not enough people willing to look after them until the end of their lives. Of course racehorse owners should be compelled to take responsibility for their horses after they finish racing. But in reality there is no guarantee that the 6 year old gelding being sent off to be rehomed won't end up as the 18 year old at the knackers.

It's awfully sad but unless the various breed societies are willing to limit the number of foals they are prepared to register every year I really don't now what the answer is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 3:15pm
The voice of sanity & reality, you're so right, death is inevitable as are the extreme heat/cold of saleyards, likelihood of severe injury whilst jammed into trucks & the fear of knowing their fate at the processing plant. There's no way around this when owners want to be paid rather than pay for their demise.
I guess we can only wish for some care & compassion whilst all this takes place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 3:31pm
I'm not a fan of bureaucracy, but i wonder if it is at all practical to introduce something like you have to have some form of license if you want to register more then X amounts of foals per breeding year, and getting that license requires you to demonstrate a strong financial situation, among other relevant factors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 11:29pm
I don't accept this theory that evil syndicators trap naive idiots into buying shares in horses. It reeks of the attitude of some here which is "country people love their horses" vs "city slickers are largely morons who buy a horse to get pissed and boast to their mates about it".

It isn't true, and it isn't helpful. Address the cause rather than promoting false stereotypes.

And Baguette above is exactly right about the root cause.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 11:40pm
I've seen some ad's for syndicators, aside from the fact their a business they exist to make money, some are definitely misleading in how they market horses, the things they focus on, they'll tell you how fantastic the sire is forever, but now say much about how its the mares 3rd foal and the first 2 are unraced, and other stuff.

They try to be sneaky with their markups, charging more then they pay the trainers, paying thousands in advertising for a small snippet in a paper somewhere, charging monthly administration account fees to every individual percentage holder.

I firmly believe a lot of them's main focus is buying yearlings which they can re-sell for the most profit, not focusing on a horse that they can still make a profit off, but also one that is more likely to be a winner, after all your average jue isn't after a group performer, they want a horse that's going to 'win a few races' and depending on how high a price their paying, get to a few saturday races so they can have a day out.

That's why you see soo many first and second season sires, plenty where the sire is easy to sell, but the mare's strikerate isn't great, it's about what horse they can exaggerate and over hype the most to mark up the most.

Also charging the training rate when the horse is spelling, although i don't know how many do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 12:43am
Maybe I'm looking back with the eyes of nostalgia , but by my memory back in the day it would have been unusual for a reasonably young ,reasonably sound thoroughbred to end up at the doggers. We used to know a guy who made good money with off the track thoroughbreds who he'd train up and sell on for eventing, dressage etc. He had an arrangement with a few trainers and used to pay good money for a sound gelding with good gaits. Certainly he'd pay a heck of a lot more than dogger's rates. Even the older failed broodmares were in demand to breed polo ponies, hacks etc.

The number of thoroughbred foals being breed every year must have gone through the roof in the last 20/30 years!Just too many to find a purpose for after racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Baguette Baguette wrote:

Maybe I'm looking back with the eyes of nostalgia , but by my memory back in the day it would have been unusual for a reasonably young ,reasonably sound thoroughbred to end up at the doggers. We used to know a guy who made good money with off the track thoroughbreds who he'd train up and sell on for eventing, dressage etc. He had an arrangement with a few trainers and used to pay good money for a sound gelding with good gaits. Certainly he'd pay a heck of a lot more than dogger's rates. Even the older failed broodmares were in demand to breed polo ponies, hacks etc.

The number of thoroughbred foals being breed every year must have gone through the roof in the last 20/30 years!Just too many to find a purpose for after racing.
Sadly, the warmblood took over as the competitors horse of choice, hence why so many thoroughbreds started ending up at the sales. People are now starting to look at thoroughbreds again, but it will never be like the old days where people took them for everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote brave_ponies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 6:51pm
I simply cannot think of any reason why this mare, and others like her, had to go to the doggers. It appears some connections don't even TRY to rehome. Just wrong.

A thousand blessings to those who contribute to save these discarded horses, and to those who would never send them there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 7:08pm
Am i interpreting things correctly that people who are involved in re-homing and saving horses from these auctions don't want people naming and shaming the trainers and/or owners who callously just dump horses at the sales the day after a trial where the horse bleeds?

If so, why not?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 7:47pm
It's been explained before but some may've missed it.
There are already several large stables who send their 'discards' direct to the Shep knackery which is bad enough but at least those who opt instead to go thru' these auctions, give the horse some chance at rehoming.
Pics are taken by volunteers the night prior or sale day then uploaded to FB so although there's a tiny timeframe to identify & call for buyers, it's better than nothing.
Naming & shaming will just cause those horses to go direct to process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote anabel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 6:06pm
Noticed Archard in a post race interview today wearing an "Off The Track" hat. I really hope it's because someone had a word to him and he's changed his ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote BlackKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2016 at 10:41pm
Yeah, I noticed all the ranting and raving on 78 about the locals winning the Cup and how it was a great thing. Hopefully we don't see Leveraction on this thread any time soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:01pm
The only people who can reasonably object to knackeries are vegetarians. The slaughter of all creatures for consumption and other uses does not attract the righteous sentimentality as does the slaughter of horses. Why don't you all picket McDonalds or Hungry Jacks or KFC? Or the local fish and chip shop where you can get a cheap serve of flake. I do support saving horses. But it is unrealistic to think that people should have licenses to isn them etc. BTW I don't eat chicken or flake, but I did eat some dead and well cooked meat tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:24pm
Never come across a greyscale then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 11:33am
A.Q.  I dont think it is the actual quick death that most object to.  If it is merciful and quick thats a good thing.  Better than standing in a paddock at Bulla and starving to death slowly.
What I, and others, object to, is allowing a horse that has raced and tried its heart out for you, to end up in a slaughter pen.  Or this of taking well bred flops straight from the track or stable to be dogged.
There is no excuse for that in this day and age. Many other options are out there , if you just take a bit of time and effort to search for them .
Just as the doggers have had to up date their practices and methods of disposal, so should ALL owners/trainers be required to up date theirs.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 11:58am
My objection is soley the hours of stress, in most cases, the animals go thru', prior to their 'quick death'. They all smell death, blood & feed off the stress of each other, regally bred, street mongrelor farmed animal.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 12:06pm
Yes, there is that too.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 6:29pm
Must agree with Gay and Acacia. They know the smell of death. I have been to a cattle slaughterhouse many years ago in the dark ages. Felt sorry for the cattle back then. Leaving them in a Bulla paddock as we have seen is appalling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2016 at 4:22pm

Nikki Cook aboard Elliete during her re-education for an Off the Track career

Team effort ensures Ellie's transformation


Racing Victoria Staff@RacingInsider

2:58pm

Standing in a paddock at the Freshwater Creek property of her new owner, retired racemare Elliete is almost unrecognisable when compared to the sight that greeted prospective buyers at the Echuca Horse Sale little more than 12 months ago.  

As she stood in the cold, damp sale pens in mid-2015 (pictured below), many months before entering the care of Racing Victoria Acknowledged Retrainer Nikki Cook, her attitude was poor and her future was somewhat uncertain.

There’s no denying Echuca’s place as a legitimate public auction for all equine breeds however the weekly sale often leaves horses, including the daughter of Legion on this occasion, at the behest of buyers that aren’t always in the market for a genuine equestrian mount.

But after being alerted to Elliete’s presence at the sale by Racing Victoria Chairman of Stewards Terry Bailey, who was in attendance as part of RV’s commitment to identify and collate information about the thoroughbreds being offered for sale, the mare’s breeder Anne Garner stepped in.

Garner asked Bailey to bid for the mare on her behalf and, when the auctioneer’s hammer came down at $380, she was once again the owner of the sleek chestnut galloper.

Click here to read more about Anne Garner’s purchase of Elliete at the Echuca Horse Sale.

The mare returned to Garner’s care for several months where she was afforded the appropriate conditions to let down from racing before entering Cook’s Shory Park Horses stable. 

Despite some early challenges, Cook said the mare’s re-education had been an extremely rewarding process and indicated her future Off the Track would undoubtedly eclipse her three-start racing career in which she was collectively defeated by almost 50 lengths. 

“I’ve had a few horses from Anne recently and Ellie (Elliete) came to me with two others,” Cook said.

“She was quite a nervous horse at first so I spent several weeks just getting to know her in the paddock and on the ground.

“Her retraining came along pretty slowly at first but, with a bit of extra time and love, she’s been good as gold.

“Her transformation has been pretty cool to watch because she was a challenge at first but she’s come out of retraining as one of the quietest horses we’ve had through.”

Only days after advertising the mare for sale as an all-round riding mount, Elliete was quickly picked up by Jess Connor Kennedy, who plans to use the mare as an Adult Riding Club mount.


Breeder committed to Ellie's future

James Tzaferis@Jtzaf

28 November, 2014

“It doesn’t matter where we start, it’s where we finish.”

The call of the knockabout bush auctioneer was particularly pertinent as he invited onlookers, an eclectic mix of hardened stockmen, livestock traders and bargain equestrian shoppers, to place their bids at Wednesday’s Echuca Horse Sale.

For five-year-old Legion mare Elliete, one of 11 thoroughbreds offered at this week’s sale of over 120 horses, the finish was somewhat of a fairytale one.

Unlike the 10 other thoroughbreds in the sale who had each been rehomed at least once following their retirement from a racing stable, Elliete was dropped in a metal pen four days after her most recent race start, an inglorious fourth in an 800m maiden at a non-TAB meeting at Hay.

While the sale, held fortnightly at the Echuca Livestock Exchange, operates as a legitimate market to buy and sell horses of all breeds, including thoroughbreds both in and out of work, it has been known to be frequented by individuals with questionable intentions for their purchases.

Enter the leggy chestnut’s breeders Neil and Anne Garner who, after receiving a courtesy call from Racing Victoria representatives on site at Echuca to let them know that the mare was about to be offered for sale, made no hesitation in committing to buy Elliete, regardless of cost.

The battle in the ring was brief and the mare, who returned to the Garner’s Numerkah property yesterday, became theirs once again for $340, a small price to pay for peace of mind according to Anne Garner.

“She arrived yesterday morning safe and sound, and we’ve transitioned her down in to a paddock and she looks to be very happy,” Garner said.

“I was very surprised to find out that she was there, especially in those circumstances.

“Even though this wasn’t our horse, we have had horses with the trainers and I know Donna goes to a fair bit of trouble to find homes for them and has found good homes for a couple of our other horses.

“I contacted one of her trainers who said that the owner had been assured that someone would step in if the meat people were going to buy her.”

Despite being noticeably confused at Echuca amid the banging of the steel holding pens and the restless whinnies of neighbouring horses, Elliete has taken little time to settle into her new paddock life, warming quickly to the woman that once helped bring her into the world.

And Garner is confident that, given time to gain some weight, Elliete can be transitioned into a loving equestrian home, potentially as a dressage mount, where she will take little time to exceed her three modest performances on the racetrack.

“We have had quite a few horses over the years and we’ve always managed to find good homes for them to get re-educated,” Garner said.

“She (Elliete) actually is a lovely horse and once she puts some weight on I think she’ll let down into a lovely mare.

“I’ve already got someone in my mind that I’m thinking might like to take her and train her for something else, maybe for dressage.

“She seems very sensible and she’s been a pleasure to handle since she’s come home.”

Each fortnight more than 100 horses are sold across both the ridden and penned sections of the Echuca Horse Sale with an average of less than 10% of these thoroughbreds, the majority of which are older and have retired from the track long ago.

And while they might not attract the million dollar bids of the blueblood yearlings seen at some of Australia’s premier thoroughbred sales, horses at sold at the Exchange can commonly command hefty pricetags, as seen yesterday with the $3000 purchase of a talented ridden horse.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Beliskner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2016 at 5:06pm
Michael Cornish & Donna Gaskin were the trainers who dumped Eliette at the Echuca just a few days after she last raced.  A lot of class these people.

I really think we should start naming and shaming trainers who pull this kind of crap, they didn't even try to find her a home, at least not even a half-assed attempt.

I wonder if it is standard practice for them to dump their horses at Echuca?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2016 at 5:34pm
This is the latest info on how to buy one if you can't attend Smile

Lots of people have messaged RHV admin wondering what the future holds and have offered amazing words of support. As you all know we are crazy passionate about saving good horses from slaughter and horses from the saleyards and we now have some time on our hands.
Our current plan where we can still help these horses is to
A. Offer daily agistment for horses purchased from the sales @ $12 per day inclusive of feed. This allows horses people purchase to be transported straight out of the saleyards back to rhv where they can be cared for until there new owners can pick them up or organise transport either within vic or interstate. Pete 0402591308 charges $75 to bring them back to rhv

B. With time on our hands we are offering handling of horses which will hopefully see more of these unhandled types get a home, at $260 per week which includes hay.

C. The friday sale has fantastic people there who can bid on your behalf but as normal we will be there as we always have been to assist anyone who needs a horse assessed or transport from the yards etc that part wont change we are crazy happy to help any horse get a home

D. The wednesday sale has been a lot more tricky without the haap girls. Last wednesday i bid on multiple horses for people. I am happy to continue to do that until the HAAP girls return. What we did was get people to text John Moyle 0428 588 335  with a copy of drivers licence and payment details and tell him that you authorize me to bid on your behalf, then message me with pen number and your maximum bid. This way i dont have the responsibility of any payment details which i just find to stressful and the auctioneer is unaware of your bids. This worked well last sale and we saved several horses.

E. We still hope to take on some horses for rehoming from the sales but these will be only dogger type horses that Maddie Kane can work with and will only be 1 or 2 at a time til they find homes.
F. Transport Pete is still available as normal to transport throughout Victoria 0402591308.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and hopefully we can make this work and together save some more xx


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2016 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by Beliskner Beliskner wrote:

Michael Cornish & Donna Gaskin were the trainers who dumped Eliette at the Echuca just a few days after she last raced.  A lot of class these people.

I really think we should start naming and shaming trainers who pull this kind of crap, they didn't even try to find her a home, at least not even a half-assed attempt.

I wonder if it is standard practice for them to dump their horses at Echuca?

Have to think tho, if they get named and shamed, they might take their horses to some less known sale, where the horse will never get a chance of anything but going for dog food.
I do think people should be held up for show and tell, as you say, Beliskner, but its a double edged sword, as JoH pointed out some time back.  
animals before people.
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