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Dynamic Waterhouse fluff

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RED HUNTER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2016 at 7:47pm
"off and racing" 's insight to a syndication experience is what we should be irate about.

There are two types of syndication

The one where a purchaser invites known friends to share, is a great one. They have total control.

The DYNAMIC type syndicate is fraught with misery.....get a bunch of strangers together and they have little/no say.....cop it or opt out...this type of syndicate does not fit with 2016 horse society now.

(just ask Glyn Schofield and his cohorts)

Dynamic have made a stupid mistake teaming with Gai...Gai is not syndicate friendly.....rarely runs her horses and keeps them to City and Provincial tracks. A case of extreme misery.

A syndicate of strangers will suffer in the extreme under a Gai/Dean combo...unless the horse has plenty of ability.


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Bushy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bushy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 1:09pm
www.syndicatorreview.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 2:06pm
[QUOTE=Bushy] www.syndicatorreview.com[/QUOTE]
 
Good on them.
 
What amazes me is that management fees are charged even on horses who can't pick up their feet.
 
 
“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2016 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Bushy Bushy wrote:

www.syndicatorreview.com

Thanks Bushy - was trying to find it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Off and racing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2016 at 11:51am
Some of those syndicators should be run out of town based on what there annual management fee is $16k per annum per horse plus 12.5% of the purchase price plus 2% of any prize money that is utterly disgraceful. Base on the fact only 20% of racehorses would be infront after purchase cost and training fees. I would back 95% of Dynamic owners finish a long way behind which aligns with my personal experience being a 1 time Dynamic owner a few years back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote brogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Bushy Bushy wrote:

www.syndicatorreview.com


Would be good to add yearling sales purchases with outcome data for each of the syndicators to give a better appraisal of performance. Easily done through Stallions.com.au data. Here is data for Champions/Matchem Racing from 2009 (current 8yos) to 2015 (2yos) as an example http://bit.ly/1WRoWWc

It could easily add a criteria for outcomes based on SW/Purchase % being 0-5%, 5-10% and 10%+
Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Fontiton...Chabaud...Breaking Lucky...Indarra...Hoss Amor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whitt0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 10:40am
Originally posted by brogers brogers wrote:

Originally posted by Bushy Bushy wrote:

www.syndicatorreview.com


Would be good to add yearling sales purchases with outcome data for each of the syndicators to give a better appraisal of performance. Easily done through Stallions.com.au data. Here is data for Champions/Matchem Racing from 2009 (current 8yos) to 2015 (2yos) as an example http://bit.ly/1WRoWWc

It could easily add a criteria for outcomes based on SW/Purchase % being 0-5%, 5-10% and 10%+

Incredible strikrate for Matchem/Champion/Aquanita
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zenden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2016 at 11:58am
Great site, thanks for the info.
noticed that champions and matchem only got together since December 2015? Do you know who selected Champions syndications yearlings before then?Also when you put matchem in only three of twelve horses 2014 yearlings are named? Is this correct? I just wonder why there are 9 that are rising four year olds and have no name. Were they sold overseas by any chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 5:23am
Originally posted by Zenden Zenden wrote:

Great site, thanks for the info.
noticed that champions and matchem only got together since December 2015? Do you know who selected Champions syndications yearlings before then?Also when you put matchem in only three of twelve horses 2014 yearlings are named? Is this correct? I just wonder why there are 9 that are rising four year olds and have no name. Were they sold overseas by any chance?


Zenden,

John O'Shea and Jason Abrahams picked out the Champions horses.

Not sure how the naming works and why they are not updated. All the 2014 horses are named and many have run. The Reward for Effort/Paeroa is noted as unnamed but he runs around as "Ability" in Melbourne. He won at Cranbourne on Friday. The Choisir/Pedantic is "Very Choosy" who has won 3 of 4 starts.
Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Fontiton...Chabaud...Breaking Lucky...Indarra...Hoss Amor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 9:44am
Thanks for the info, if the stallions site can incorporate all the named horses it will be very useful. Love following the yearlings from the sales, who buys and how they turn out! Cannot wait till next week to see what Easter sales has on offer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 11:20am
Darby Racing do better than this mob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote brogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Darby Racing do better than this mob.


Purchases from 2009 to 2015
11.9% SW to Purchases for Champions/Matchem
4.3% SW to Purchases for Darby

If owning a stakes winner is what one aspires to when owning a horse the data would suggest the alternate to your statement.
Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Fontiton...Chabaud...Breaking Lucky...Indarra...Hoss Amor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zenden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 8:30pm
That's an enormous result for champions/ matchem! From record they don't pay enormous amounts for their purchases either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016 at 10:28pm
Thanks for the valuable insight. Good to know, I steer clear of them anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Off and racing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2016 at 10:09pm
Champion don't seem to go as good now not with o Shea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 10:09am
Monthly Management fee of $60 for a 5% share. Crikey
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 2:18pm
I Am Special trialed very nicely at Randwick while Kokpelli dropped out quickly and probably has an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Monthly Management fee of $60 for a 5% share. Crikey
 

On the assumption this is true for DYNAMIC?....(having many horses currently,with various stables)....his return for OFFICE WORK etc would be enormous.

Just for Gai's 2yo s  ...16 of...and only 1 raced (recently and well beaten)

Under Gai's care for approx  1year with nothing to show(only 2yo s)

the return for his office

is 1200 x 16 x12..... = $230,400
************************************************************************
THIS GUY IS SUPER SMART,GIVE HIM CREDIT.

Wonder how many more his has at any one time.....a SYNDICATION TOTAL could be 50

50x1200 x12 =$ 720,000 per year.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 6:28pm
cut n paste emails from them. easy money.
what can you rave on about when a horse is in a paddock???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote brogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by RED HUNTER RED HUNTER wrote:

Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Monthly Management fee of $60 for a 5% share. Crikey
 

On the assumption this is true for DYNAMIC?....(having many horses currently,with various stables)....his return for OFFICE WORK etc would be enormous.

Just for Gai's 2yo s  ...16 of...and only 1 raced (recently and well beaten)

Under Gai's care for approx  1year with nothing to show(only 2yo s)

the return for his office

is 1200 x 16 x12..... = $230,400
************************************************************************
THIS GUY IS SUPER SMART,GIVE HIM CREDIT.

Wonder how many more his has at any one time.....a SYNDICATION TOTAL could be 50

50x1200 x12 =$ 720,000 per year.



I think that you will find that it is on a per owner basis, not a per horse basis so if an owner has ownership in multiple horses they are charged $50 for the management of all horses. It is also not incremental for the percentage owned, so a 5% interest at $60 doesn't mean you are charged $120 for owning 10% of the horse. If you consider this, the final figure might be as little as a quarter of the number you came up with.
Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Fontiton...Chabaud...Breaking Lucky...Indarra...Hoss Amor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by brogers brogers wrote:

Originally posted by RED HUNTER RED HUNTER wrote:

Originally posted by Gee Gee Gee Gee wrote:

Monthly Management fee of $60 for a 5% share. Crikey
 

On the assumption this is true for DYNAMIC?....(having many horses currently,with various stables)....his return for OFFICE WORK etc would be enormous.

Just for Gai's 2yo s  ...16 of...and only 1 raced (recently and well beaten)

Under Gai's care for approx  1year with nothing to show(only 2yo s)

the return for his office

is 1200 x 16 x12..... = $230,400
************************************************************************
THIS GUY IS SUPER SMART,GIVE HIM CREDIT.

Wonder how many more his has at any one time.....a SYNDICATION TOTAL could be 50

50x1200 x12 =$ 720,000 per year.



I think that you will find that it is on a per owner basis, not a per horse basis so if an owner has ownership in multiple horses they are charged $50 for the management of all horses. It is also not incremental for the percentage owned, so a 5% interest at $60 doesn't mean you are charged $120 for owning 10% of the horse. If you consider this, the final figure might be as little as a quarter of the number you came up with.



1200 x 16 x12..... = $230,400 = $50,850 or, at the horror end of the scale;

50x1200 x12 =$ 720,000 =$180,000

For providing what services?  "Management" is far too loose a word.  The trainer, agister, vet, farrier, breaker, track work rider and other useful input people "manage" the horse.  What specifically does the syndicator provide in the way of "input" that justifies a "management" fee, given that he is one of the few businesses in the world that has access to brand advertising on a racing thoroughbred?  I am assuming that the syndicator does not pay royalties to every owner of a horse that carries his company logo. 

Just asking..........


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2016 at 8:43pm
They have a template for Agisted, Pre trained and Horses in work.

Change the name of the horse, change his/her, filly/colt.

Proof read, then send.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mowie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 6:46am
any link that dynamic had it's better run as owners under kevin moses who well got caught?  gais to clean Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Prince 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 11:36pm
Nice to see people starting to see the true colors of dudnamyic sydications
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2016 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by Black Prince 2 Black Prince 2 wrote:

Nice to see people starting to see the true colors of dudnamyic sydications

Oh ?   Care to elaborate ?
But , yes,  its good people are twigging .
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Black Prince 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2016 at 3:11pm
Just from reading these few posts that people have twigged that dudnamics arent that good a syndication company
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Banjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 12:25pm
On top of the admin fees charged by the various syndicators some must be getting kick backs from the breeders. Often see big overs in the purchase price
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2016 at 8:39pm
Result at end of 2yo season...Dynamic/Waterhouse

10 horses of the 16 unsighted

3 trialled...each one trial 


3 raced.....one 8/9 wyong and 5/8 wyong

                one    3/10 beaumont

                one   10/10 gosford

THE POSITIVE:

Things must get better for their 3yo season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2016 at 8:41pm
Did they get a winner?

Darby has been smashing it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2016 at 2:18am
Gov,when you asked that question,the only one I thought of was a mare that won at BEAUMONT.

The name escaped me but I just checked a 2015/6 list of her horses and found it

DINKY DI DORA.

I can't remember any others.


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