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Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Discussion point.
    Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:52am
Was Kavanagh proved right or wrong by skipping the cox plate with whobe?? why was today's crushing test over 2500 metres any easier than a run in the cox plate??

peoples thoughts?
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tan tat de lago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tan tat de lago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:53am
he won the cox anyway with big mal
 
first and 2nd in a cox or first in a cox, and second in a derby
Whats the difference between a great and champion horse? Not much. Just a little
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TIGER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:56am

Todays run was like a jog in the park compared to a run in the Cox Plate,would have had to sprint home faster than Northern Meteor to catch Maldivian with the slow pace in the Plate.

Trainer did the right thing by running him in the Derby,just didnt stay the trip as good as the winner,3rd horse was panels away.
Hidden In Hollywood
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Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:57am
But which would have been better for whobe's development..is 2500 in your second prep the way you want to race them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:58am
Doubt he will be racing over that trip again,2000mtrs max for sure in the future.
Hidden In Hollywood
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tan tat de lago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tan tat de lago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:59am
2500 wont do anything to a horse. a 500kilo animal, running 2 and a half kilometres. an 80 kilo human running a 3 kilometer run would freshen up nicely with a break, certainly these massive animals will be fine come next year!
all this talk about 2500m ruining a horse is absolutely frogsh*t
its exercise after all isnt it?
Whats the difference between a great and champion horse? Not much. Just a little
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early4lunch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote early4lunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:59am
He went the right way.The horse isn't hardened enough for w.f.a. yet.
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Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:00am
mentally, the way that rebel raider left him for dead. it could have an effect on him.
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tan tat de lago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tan tat de lago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:01am
mentally? are you kidding Blake?
 
are there horse pyschiartrists now? excuse the speeling
Whats the difference between a great and champion horse? Not much. Just a little
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TIGER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:02am

Stick him to the mile and he will be getting brained by Weekend Hussler thats if the Hussler is not set for the Oakbank Steeple at Easter LOL

Hidden In Hollywood
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Go Flash Go View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Go Flash Go Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:03am

Take away the names of the races and he's rubbing shoulders with maidens basically, the horse has gone down hill since the Guineas and is gaining momentum. Said we probably wouldn't see Devil Moon again after last years Plate, or Divine Madonna after her last Flemington win. This bloke looks the same now. People are tryig to pump up the tyres of too many horses these days.

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tan tat de lago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tan tat de lago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:04am
i agree GFG
 
if you win a couple in town, u get a bit of hype about you. yes the horses are good and yes we need the fans invlovement but sometimes the hype kills horses eg.harada
Whats the difference between a great and champion horse? Not much. Just a little
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Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:04am
Originally posted by tan tat de lago tan tat de lago wrote:

mentally? are you kidding Blake?
 
are there horse pyschiartrists now? excuse the speeling


do you think their skulls are empty?
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tan tat de lago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tan tat de lago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:07am
nothing on earth is more developed than the human brain. yes horses have brains, but do horses act the same way as humans? not really one would think.
Whats the difference between a great and champion horse? Not much. Just a little
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Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:08am
im sure if you are trying your heart out and this horse effortlessly sprints away from you, someone deep down it affects the horse.. imo.
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tan tat de lago View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tan tat de lago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:09am

im not saying it wouldnt affect the horse, but im saying it would be highly unlikely that horses have the same emotions/feelings as humans

Whats the difference between a great and champion horse? Not much. Just a little
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Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:11am
well im not saying they have the same emotions feelings as us, just that it affects them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:15am
The horse will get over the loss,wasnt like he was knocked from pillar to post and fell.
 
Give him a good long spell and he wont even remember the loss.
Hidden In Hollywood
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Wortel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wortel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:35am
He didn't stay the trip.

He ran 2nd on class and that is bucketloads of class.

Buffett ran the trip easily but just never kicked it up a gear. Plodder.
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Jack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:50am
Both Samantha Miss and WhoBe are great three year olds.
 
But for some reason Whobe was hyped about 10 times as much.  They should have some great battles cumulating in the 2009 Cox Plate!
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Wortel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wortel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:51am
He won the guineas. That qualifies him to be fave for next years Cox and Melb Cup Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weekendhussler2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 1:04pm
people hyping whobe as the next weekend hussler. people hyping weekend hussler as the next kingston town.

i read a book called driven from within by michael jordan. he himself stated that his resaon for success off the basketball court was that there was no marketing plan for him, no hype generated. he made it himself and the hype grew according to his accomplishments. His raw abilities generated his success, and once that was proven then he was marketed on his accomplishments.

he stated that with the new players, their marketing campaigns have created so much hype about them that they cannot possibly live up to their expectations.

hence people disbanding WH after proving he cannot stay. he s still the best horse in australia by lengths, but he was marketed in such a way that anything short of winning any race over any distance was a failure.

such is the way of the world
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south coast View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote south coast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 6:49pm
You would need a pretty big couch for them to lie on at the doctors
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benji View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benji Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 7:04pm
Has Whobe beaten a quality group of 3yo colts?
Beat Buffett at MValley who had won a Geelong Maiden.
Beat Time Thief who was beaten by Aichi , who i wouldn't rate in the top five 3yos in Sydney, let alone Australia...Desuetude is 5 lenghts better than him!
Then he is beaten by a 100-1 chance.
Not saying he won't be a good horse but he is no Kingston Town and neither is the Hussler.The King won from 1200-3200, won a Sydney Cup, slaughtered in a Melbourne Cup and could match it at WFA over 1200m.
Thats a true Champion for mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Blake Blake wrote:

mentally, the way that rebel raider left him for dead. it could have an effect on him.


There are horses who have 'winner' written all over them - they believe they're invincible whilst others are just 'run with the herd'  animals. Some gain a huge boost in confidence from an easy 'kill' & can string a few together after that initial win. Case in point, Killas' Mate who'd become a serial placegetter untill he finally won a non tab, followed by another, then a TAB win @ Stawell Fri.
Who knows what exactly goes on inside each individuals' head? Only time will tell what, if any, effect the Derby run had on Whobe although I think a decent spell will see him back to his best.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Romano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Romano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:34pm
Nothing wrong with WBGY's run yesterday..jsut beaten by a superior stayer. Everyone is saying eth horse didnt stay. I think he did. Just found who stayed better. Think they will be both be in discussion this time next year for the MC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benji Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:39pm
Whobe is not a melbourne cup horse, NO WAY IN THE WORLD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TIGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 9:40pm
Whobegotyou Melb Cup? .....More like the Doncaster than the  Cox Plate IMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thecannylad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:36pm
different races different elements, cox plate carries 10kg less, at a distance he had scope to handle, running of a camber hes proven to like, derby today was kinda further than 2500 metres with the slight give in the track, also i think whobegot switched off a little when rebel raider dipped under his neck at the 350 metres, anyway its al just perceptions, if rebel raider had been scratched at the gates no one would have batted an eyelid, and whobegot would have gone down in history as a crushhing 3 length winner of the derby and everyone would be saying he stays all day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2008 at 10:45pm
Blake I agree with you sonThumbs%20Up
 
If he thought that a run in a 2040m race with no speed on and 48.5 or whatever was so damaging, why wasn't the run where he carried 55.5kilos and ran a second and a half faster.
 
I still think he went the wrong way but hey he still won the plate and if he thinks running the horse over 2500m in a race which was at the very minimumu an even speed is good for horses who have not yet developed, then good luck to him.
 
I do disagree though.
 
I still can not work out why trainers do not run 3yo in the Mackinnon.
 
Good distance for them, nice weight and the older horses are usually over the top by then.
 
But hey I am just a punter who knows nothing so I will stop my rant now.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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