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Darren Weir - Police Investigation
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djebel View Drop Down
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It is impossible for a trainer to train 300 of them for so many different owners.

How does he decide which ones are gelded, do they look at him the wrong way and he snips them ?
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

It is impossible for a trainer to train 300 of them for so many different owners.

How does he decide which ones are gelded, do they look at him the wrong way and he snips them ?


The horse walks in and says, cut them off please
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Most major sports have rules which place limits on competitors

NRL, AFL, Big Bash all have salary caps

In Formula One racing you can only enter 2 cars per race per team.  That would be a good rule for Australian racing presently.  So Waller could only have 2 horses maximum per race instead of 6 or more

It is well recognised in the world of sport that limits are needed to curb how powerful clubs or teams can become.  This is for the overall health of the game

Then if you want to argue that being a horse trainer is a business well there are a raft of competition laws limiting how powerful businesses can become

643 horses is way way above where the limit should be for horses per stable

Last Wednesday Waller had 5 winners from 7 races in Sydney while Weir had 4 from 8 in Melbourne.  If this trend continues Waller and Weir will get more and more horses and one day they will be the only trainers left

The time for Racing Victoria and Racing NSW and co to act on this was a few years back.  They have been asleep but better late than never
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Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Most major sports have rules which place limits on competitors

NRL, AFL, Big Bash all have salary caps

In Formula One racing you can only enter 2 cars per race per team.  That would be a good rule for Australian racing presently.  So Waller could only have 2 horses maximum per race instead of 6 or more






You could NOT have that at the highest level of horse racing, You might be able to limit representation in lower class races, but nobody should want to lessen the higher grade races. If Waller or Weir have the 24 best 3200m horses in their stables there should be nothing stopping them filling the Melbourne Cup.

I agree they should not be able to have so many horses on their books, that should be limited.
reductio ad absurdum
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Maybe you could make an exception to stable limits per race for stakes races.  However the Olympics limit the number of competitors each country can enter when in some events one country might have the top 10 athletes.  Formula One is the same where in some years one team might be able to fill spots 1 to 10 if allowed to enter 10 cars

Generally though racing has lost the plot when it comes to allowing a small number of operations to strip huge amounts of money out of the game with no limits.  You have Waller and Weir on the training front.  With tote betting Zeljko and other rebaters are allowed to make millions while everyone else loses
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For goodness sake, they tried limiting TJ in the 80's for a while and they had to rescind that limitation. Why not limit city trained horses from competing at country meetings or, if you can't limit them, make those city trained horses carry a "city" penalty, eg 4kg above their rated weight. Give the country boys a go. Now that country races are $20,000 and Cup days are $30,000 min, Gai, Waller, Baker and the like are bringing city class horses to take on their country cousins, with the expected results. I read complaints that city races have less runners than country. Just make city trainers support city tracks twice a week and leave country for country folk. TJ would go to Newcastle once a year for the Newmarket and Gold Cup but would not trespass on country track on any regular basis.
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How can stables be limited given it is the owners right to choose where their horse is trained? How would it be decided who gets to use Waller/Wier and who doesn't?
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Originally posted by Majestic Majestic wrote:

For goodness sake, they tried limiting TJ in the 80's for a while and they had to rescind that limitation. Why not limit city trained horses from competing at country meetings or, if you can't limit them, make those city trained horses carry a "city" penalty, eg 4kg above their rated weight. Give the country boys a go. Now that country races are $20,000 and Cup days are $30,000 min, Gai, Waller, Baker and the like are bringing city class horses to take on their country cousins, with the expected results. I read complaints that city races have less runners than country. Just make city trainers support city tracks twice a week and leave country for country folk. TJ would go to Newcastle once a year for the Newmarket and Gold Cup but would not trespass on country track on any regular basis.


Darren Weir is a country trainer though. Ballarat Warrnambool and Baringhup are all country Victorian based stables
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Originally posted by Majestic Majestic wrote:

For goodness sake, they tried limiting TJ in the 80's for a while and they had to rescind that limitation. Why not limit city trained horses from competing at country meetings or, if you can't limit them, make those city trained horses carry a "city" penalty, eg 4kg above their rated weight. Give the country boys a go. Now that country races are $20,000 and Cup days are $30,000 min, Gai, Waller, Baker and the like are bringing city class horses to take on their country cousins, with the expected results. I read complaints that city races have less runners than country. Just make city trainers support city tracks twice a week and leave country for country folk. TJ would go to Newcastle once a year for the Newmarket and Gold Cup but would not trespass on country track on any regular basis.

Some good points there Majestic, but I must say Tommy did like going to the Wagga Cup meeting as he was from around that area, although it may seem strange to some he really only had a max of 50 in work , slow one's " out the gate" he had no trouble shipping them off to Malaya where he had a wealthy client who owned all the drive ins , bit of trivia.
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Whilst on the big numbers trainer bashing, you can add Hayes to the list at 437.

Waller = 330.
Wisdom has been chasing me but I've always outrun it!
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Why are some trainers better than others? What do top trainers do differently to average trainers?
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Why are some trainers better than others? What do top trainers do differently to average trainers?

They win more often
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Why are some trainers better than others? What do top trainers do differently to average trainers?

The truthful answers to these questions may open doors some would prefer kept shut
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Originally posted by skippy123 skippy123 wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Why are some trainers better than others? What do top trainers do differently to average trainers?

The truthful answers to these questions may open doors some would prefer kept shut


NFI
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Originally posted by Afros Afros wrote:

How can stables be limited given it is the owners right to choose where their horse is trained? How would it be decided who gets to use Waller/Wier and who doesn't?


The same as Hong Kong.
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Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Why are some trainers better than others? What do top trainers do differently to average trainers?

“Better” vets and more ruthless with their horses.
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Good horses make good trainers, just like good weather makes makes good farmers , realise what you have and be prepared to cull, success breeds success and brings in better owners , it can open many doors imo.
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Obviously owners know what they are getting into.

Despite the fact Weir clearly does not train them people are happy to pay top dollar to have Weir's name in the racebook beside their horses name.
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The undeniable fact is he is winning races all over the country and that's what owners buy horses for, he's a winner, fact!
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In spite of a similar strike rate to most others.
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Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

The undeniable fact is he is winning races all over the country and that's what owners buy horses for, he's a winner, fact!

But does he get the absolute best out of his charges ?

His two best horse this season where very inconsistent. 

He has some of the most promising cattle to work with next season, Sadly I do not hold much  hope that they will be consistently good.
reductio ad absurdum
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Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

The undeniable fact is he is winning races all over the country and that's what owners buy horses for, he's a winner, fact!


But does he get the absolute best out of his charges ?

His two best horse this season where very inconsistent. 

He has some of the most promising cattle to work with next season, Sadly I do not hold much  hope that they will be consistently good.



Well, can you name any horse that has left his stable and improved their performance?
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The Justice League
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Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

The undeniable fact is he is winning races all over the country and that's what owners buy horses for, he's a winner, fact!


But does he get the absolute best out of his charges ?

His two best horse this season where very inconsistent. 

He has some of the most promising cattle to work with next season, Sadly I do not hold much  hope that they will be consistently good.



Well, can you name any horse that has left his stable and improved their performance?

I could not name you a horse that has left his stable.
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Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

The undeniable fact is he is winning races all over the country and that's what owners buy horses for, he's a winner, fact!


But does he get the absolute best out of his charges ?

His two best horse this season where very inconsistent. 

He has some of the most promising cattle to work with next season, Sadly I do not hold much  hope that they will be consistently good.



Well, can you name any horse that has left his stable and improved their performance?

Harry New Shoes, a maiden before today, won at Wellington ( NSW ) today,
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Originally posted by Baghdad Bob Baghdad Bob wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

The undeniable fact is he is winning races all over the country and that's what owners buy horses for, he's a winner, fact!


But does he get the absolute best out of his charges ?

His two best horse this season where very inconsistent. 

He has some of the most promising cattle to work with next season, Sadly I do not hold much  hope that they will be consistently good.



Well, can you name any horse that has left his stable and improved their performance?

Harry New Shoes, a maiden before today, won at Wellington ( NSW ) today,

Only winner for that trainer in 50 starts. Censored
reductio ad absurdum
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Haha, seen it BB, won with ease, there is a place for every horse in Oz to win a race providing their sound.
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Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Haha, seen it BB, won with ease, there is a place for every horse in Oz to win a race providing their sound.


Got that right, have a look at this fella. Look at the money on offer for a Darwin maiden. Won by 6! Shocked


CUNNING MOVES

3yo Chestnut Gelding
D.O.B: 16-Nov-2014
by FOXWEDGE  from DANCE TO MY TUNE (CAN)
5x Pedigree Report 

StatusActive
Owner’s Details Miss S A Acornley, Mr D R Desilva, Mr C M Miller, Mr L J Miller, Mrs FE Ayre, Mr A Ayre, Mr L Petersen, Ms K Pike, Mr L C Myall, Mr C L R Simpson, Mrs L Berwick, Mr P A Dove, Mrs RA Say
Stewards EmbargoesNone on record
Emergency Vaccination Record(Click here for more details)
Last Gear Change*09-May-2018, Tongue Tie, Off
TrainerCarl Spry (Darwin)
Racing ColoursWhite, Green Diamond Checks, Blue Sleeves And Cap
CareerSummary: 9-1:0:1    Prizemoney: $23,440    Total Bonus: $5,200 
Min/Max-Dist-Win: 1100/1100     1st Up: 3:1-0-0    2nd Up: 2:0-0-1     
Firm: 0:0-0-0     Good: 5:1-0-0     Soft: 4:0-0-1     Heavy: 0:0-0-0    Synthetic: 0:0-0-0
Note: NSW & WA Gear Changes may be incomplete 

 
3rd of 7BDLE 29Dec17 1200m Soft5 3Y MDN-SW $22,000 ($2,960) Ms Nikita Beriman 58kg Barrier 4 
1st Belfast 58kg, 2nd One for Rocky 58kg 1:11.89 (600m 35.88), 1.35L, 2nd@800m, 2nd@400m, $3.20/$3.30/$3.40
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