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Cracksman

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    Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 8:34am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G-6lWfN4X8

What a win. That stride! Reminds me of his old man.
Sunline...simply supreme
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bradjm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 9:13am
I'm more a legs man
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James0330 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 2:28pm
Certainly gallops in the style of his old man. If he improves as a 4yo then the 2018 Arc may be one for the ages against Enable. Hopefully Winx can meet one of the two mid season.
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Formerly Kincsem View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 2:39pm
Form on soft looks vastly superior to his dryer track form. If Winx does meet him, a wet track, home ground advantage and potential for travel wariness makes it a huge risk now.

Really have to question whether it would be too big an ask for a 7yo mare to beat both Enable and now Cracksman under such circumstances. 

I think She can and if she did, it would put her above Frankel for mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 3:23pm
LOL. Dream on. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

LOL. Dream on. LOL

I have her right along side Frankel over 2000m, certainly think she would be beating him off a strong tempo and with some give in the ground. Slow tempo on firmer ground and he would be too hard to run down.

Reckon she'd have at least 3L on Cirrus Des Aigles in the wet and could certainly see her gap the likes of SNA and Farhh(?) by a similar margin as Frankel.

1600m and she would get held comfortably. All a matter of opinion.

You from the UK or timeform by any chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 10:56pm
Neither but I don't suffer from Xenophobic blindness either. Hartnell wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Frankel over any distance. Keep the laughs coming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 8:30am
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


Neither but I don't suffer from Xenophobic blindness either. Hartnell wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Frankel over any distance. Keep the laughs coming.


He doesnt usually get anywhere near Winx either
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correctweight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote correctweight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 11:30am
Frankel is the most overrated horse ever. I mean they moved all the timeform ratings just so they could give him a higher rating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 11:36am
Originally posted by correctweight correctweight wrote:

Frankel is the most overrated horse ever. I mean they moved all the timeform ratings just so they could give him a higher rating.

That is not quite correct.

The official International ratings people moved their ratings around to fit in with some sort of narrative.

Timeform have never changed theirs.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 10:21pm
The only people that under rate Frankel are rightfully considered mugs by every racing person on the planet with an opinion that matters. Many Oz forum dwellers do not fall into the "matters" category.
So be it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote correctweight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 10:37pm
Ok cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


Neither but I don't suffer from Xenophobic blindness either. Hartnell wouldn't have gotten anywhere near Frankel over any distance. Keep the laughs coming.


He doesnt usually get anywhere near Winx either


I would thought you pick up from the alias, but I’ve followed, studied and admired international racing since I was a child with an almost unhealthy interest. So xenophobic is so far off the mark it’s not funny.

I consider Frankel the best in my lifetime so to compare Winx is not to denegrate Frankel. I have Winx about 3.5L ahead of SYT (WFA) who I would consider marginally the 2nd best 2000m horse we have produced in the last 30 years.

To put my opinion of Winx into perspective I think she has a clear 4L over Sunline so certainly not downplaying Frankel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThreeBears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 10:59pm
WOW. Do you take drugs often? You asked if I was a Pom or from Timeform, presumably as a means of demeaning my opinion on Frankel. At least have the courage to own your garbage. As for Frankel being the best of your lifetime do you even recall what you said on the other thread. Here it is again just to refresh your memory. Good grief!
 
Cracksman, son of Frankel just put down a performance IMO equal to anything Frankel did over 2000m

Do not make offensive character attacks on members, thanks.


Edited by Gay3 - 27 Oct 2017 at 10:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 10:00am
Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:

WOW. Do you take drugs often? You asked if I was a Pom or from Timeform, presumably as a means of demeaning my opinion on Frankel. At least have the courage to own your garbage. As for Frankel being the best of your lifetime do you even recall what you said on the other thread. Here it is again just to refresh your memory. Good grief!
 
Cracksman, son of Frankel just put down a performance IMO equal to anything Frankel did over 2000m

Just take breath mate, no need for the personal digs.

Timeform have underrated Winx by about 5lbs compared to International ratings, nothing to do with Frankel. 

Also I rate Frankel the best I've seen for his exploits over the mile, his not nearly as bomb-proof over 2000m, hence why I think Winx at her peak distance would hold all the tactical aces over that trip and be very close depending on race circumstance.

I've stated on a number of occasions he's the best I've seen in general terms, just so happens that Winx at WFA would be almost as good as any horse I've seen over 2000m.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote correctweight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2017 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Formerly Kincsem Formerly Kincsem wrote:

Originally posted by ThreeBears ThreeBears wrote:


WOW. Do you take drugs often? You asked if I was a Pom or from Timeform, presumably as a means of demeaning my opinion on Frankel. At least have the courage to own your garbage. As for Frankel being the best of your lifetime do you even recall what you said on the other thread. Here it is again just to refresh your memory. Good grief!
 
Cracksman, son of Frankel just put down a performance IMO equal to anything Frankel did over 2000m


Just take breath mate, no need for the personal digs.

Timeform have underrated Winx by about 5lbs compared to International ratings, nothing to do with Frankel. 

Also I rate Frankel the best I've seen for his exploits over the mile, his not nearly as bomb-proof over 2000m, hence why I think Winx at her peak distance would hold all the tactical aces over that trip and be very close depending on race circumstance.

I've stated on a number of occasions he's the best I've seen in general terms, just so happens that Winx at WFA would be almost as good as any horse I've seen over 2000m.




Agreed. Your an international racing fan and watch most racing jurisdictions and are resoected by the forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 5:36pm
Racingfotos 48227951336


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 5:40pm
Cracksman was wonderful again last night but it would take some serious artistic license to get his rating for last night up with Winx and Gun Runner.

I have no doubt he is right up there with them but the runner up is pretty average, or at least he was, he has clearly improved 20 lengths on his previous best.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:03pm
Let's be honest.  Cracksman is better than Winx and it is impossible to say Winx is the world's best while Cracksman is around

Highland Reel is a very consistent horse.  Winx beat Highland Reel by 5.6L in the Cox Plate.  A few weeks later Highland Reel won the HK Vase by 1.5L.  Cracksman beat Highland Reed by 7.3L at Ascot in the Champion Stakes end of last year.  A few weeks later Highland Reel won the HK Vase by 1.8L

So I don't think Highland Reel underperformed when he raced against Cracksman going by his HK Vase performance.  The fact is that Cracksman's best is about 1.5L superior to Winx's best

Both are great horses but Cracksman is the best
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:07pm
Yes he was impressive but really only for a furlong and a half, the track looked in good nick and no horse looked uncomfortable , they should be booked for loitering, they have ran the 2000 in 2-9-45sec, with a pacemaker there it's farcical imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:09pm
2100m. Smile


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Let's be honest.  Cracksman is better than Winx and it is impossible to say Winx is the world's best while Cracksman is around

Highland Reel is a very consistent horse.  Winx beat Highland Reel by 5.6L in the Cox Plate.  A few weeks later Highland Reel won the HK Vase by 1.5L.  Cracksman beat Highland Reed by 7.3L at Ascot in the Champion Stakes end of last year.  A few weeks later Highland Reel won the HK Vase by 1.8L

So I don't think Highland Reel underperformed when he raced against Cracksman going by his HK Vase performance.  The fact is that Cracksman's best is about 1.5L superior to Winx's best

Both are great horses but Cracksman is the best

You may well be right but his effort on Sunday night was not enough to take him to the top of the rankings at this point in time.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Yes he was impressive but really only for a furlong and a half, the track looked in good nick and no horse looked uncomfortable , they should be booked for loitering, they have ran the 2000 in 2-9-45sec, with a pacemaker there it's farcical imo.

And I will add after reading Atreus's post if he's better than Winx the I will give up ever having a bet again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atreus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:18pm
Carioca

Time for you to give up betting

Cracksman's peak run is too powerful even for Winx

A real shame that Waller did not take Winx to the UK so the world could see Cracksman vs Winx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

2100m. Smile

Just read it , oops big boo boo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Atreus Atreus wrote:

Carioca

Time for you to give up betting

Cracksman's peak run is too powerful even for Winx

A real shame that Waller did not take Winx to the UK so the world could see Cracksman vs Winx


....and we do not know how either of them would measure up against Enable....although Cracksman and Enable may well meet this year.

.......and Gosden has a few more waiting in the wings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndiCap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:27pm
Attempting to compare those from different Hemispheres when they have not met in both areas is pure folly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by AndiCap AndiCap wrote:

Attempting to compare those from different Hemispheres when they have not met in both areas is pure folly.
agreed....and such discussion is pointless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 6:30pm
Thank Heavens for some clear realism from Andi.  Star
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