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Climate Change - Global Warming..

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    Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 9:02pm
I have never been able to understand one way or the other why this has been such a massive issue.

Is Global warming occurring...and what is the best evidence..?

Whenever I think of this topic I remind myself of when this planet was in it's infancy, cooling and spewing out billions of tons on carbon dioxide etc etc...

If we are seeing global warming I am unsure there is anything we could do at this point to negate its progress. If the earths population is nothing but a algal bloom coming into final phase, or bacterial cycle etc, then we would all be gone anyways, if all we are worried about is a weather cycle that was doing it's own thing anyway, was given a bit more energy via our carbon output to complete it's cycle faster, then it all seems to point to one thing really...Competition for control of new energies driven by fear campaigns and bogus science.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BROOKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 9:37pm
Biggest scam of the modern era.
Given the age of the earth and all things that have happened to it, including an ice age, the earth had to warm up anyway.
As much as it is possible the earth is warming, its equally possible it could start cooling into an ice age again.

Temperatures are the least of our problems.
We should clean up rivers, protect forests, species, etc.
Air quality is more of an issue, than the temperature of earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 9:49pm
I would think the most important thing to keep as clean and free of polutants is the Ocean...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I would think the most important thing to keep as clean and free of polutants is the Ocean...

        So true Fiddles.
Those Ocean creatures have no sewerage infrastructure at all. Disgusting for them to swim around in there own pee.      We should have the Greens do something about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:11pm
Yes the Earth has cooled and warmed before.... it has been through severe drought before... and there were also massive extinction events associated with the previous warming/cooling and drought cycles. Not many woolly mammoths around these days - want to join them?

It's also the time frame that the changes are taking place that's the problem. The previous changes occurred over millennia  - now we are talking about rapid changes over decades. Do we really want to go down that path if we can help it? The science is well substantiated, but it's the loonies who get all the press time.

Any coincidence that we're having bushfires in September?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:30pm
Songline.    They are having floods in China.
The previous seasons of wet have the fuel there in many Australian areas, for fire in any month.
Some warmer weather and a fool with a match and up she goes.
Pre Summer warning I expect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote songline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 10:35pm
On the back of the warmest 12 months ever recorded in Australia...

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/warm-winter-caps-nations-hottest-year-20130901-2syzt.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2013 at 11:16pm





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Fiddlesticks Fiddlesticks wrote:

I would think the most important thing to keep as clean and free of polutants is the Ocean...






Well they could certainly use a little less of the heat they are currently accruing.

Not sure of the point of this thread, it's all been done ad nauseam in the Carbon Tax thread. To be brief, you either accept a broad scientific consensus, or you don't.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

For a look at the actual science, including a rebuttal (linked right there on the home page) of dozens of common myths, all referenced, linked and annotated:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:03am
I look at the bigger picture

We are in a solar system along with 7 or 9(depending on whether Pluto and Charon are sateroids or small planets) 

There are planets closer to and others further away from the life source(the sun) in our system. 

Why do some have atmospheres and others don't that can sustain our type of life form? 

What conditions are unique to us to allow the proliferation of micro organisms that led to higher life forms, how long did it take, has it cycled before numerous times, where is it headed?

It got to this stage of fine balance of atmospheric condition without our interference. 

What will happen if we screw it up? 

If you focus in on smaller orders of weather patterns and composition of gases you are starting to look at trees rather than the forest.

The problem for us is, are we doing anything to alter the balance the universe spent Billions of years perfecting, to our detriment? Are we accelerating our own demise? Even on our own Planet we only live in conditions between -10 and 45 degrees We can't live outside of these

Scientists are studying conditions on Mars and the moon as we speak with rovers(Mars) and looking at conditions in our outer solar system with Voyager. They are trying to answer some of these questions and in the case of Mars try to determine if it was once like us as a  sustainer of life.
 
Until we know the answers to these sort of questions, we are doing ourselves and those that follow us a great dis-service by vandalizing our living conditions, narrowing the temperature range within which we can live. Apart from that it is plain dumb



Edited by Browndog - 12 Sep 2013 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 10:57am

Global Warming Computer Models Collapse; Arctic Ice Sheets Rapidly Expand as Planet Plunges into Global Cooling


A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.

The rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.

Instead, days before the annual autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia’s northern shores.


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The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.

Some eminent scientists now believe the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.

The disclosure comes 11 months after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific debate by revealing that global warming has ‘paused’ since the beginning of 1997 – an event that the computer models used by climate experts failed to predict.

In March, this newspaper further revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the models forecast with ‘90 per cent certainty’.

The pause – which has now been accepted as real by every major climate research centre – is important, because the models’ predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures have made many of the world’s economies divert billions of pounds into ‘green’ measures to counter  climate change.

Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:07am
Originally posted by Crash Crash wrote:

<h2 ="post-title">Global Warming Computer Models Collapse; Arctic Ice Sheets Rapidly Expand as Planet Plunges into Global Cooling</h2>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>A chilly Arctic summer has left
nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the
same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The rebound from 2012’s record low
comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave
the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>Instead, days before the annual
autumn re-freeze is due to begin, an unbroken ice sheet more than half
the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to
Russia’s northern shores.</span>

<p style="text-align: center;">
<span></span>

<p style="text-align: center;">MoS2 Template Master


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The Northwest Passage from the
Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year. More
than 20 yachts that had planned to sail it have been left ice-bound and a
cruise ship attempting the route was forced to turn back.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>Some eminent scientists now believe
the world is heading for a period of cooling that will not end until
the middle of this century – a process that would expose computer
forecasts of imminent catastrophic warming as dangerously misleading.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The disclosure comes 11 months
after The Mail on Sunday triggered intense political and scientific
debate by revealing that global warming has ‘paused’ since the beginning
of 1997 – an event that the computer models used by climate experts
failed to predict.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>In March, this newspaper further
revealed that temperatures are about to drop below the level that the
models forecast with ‘90 per cent certainty’.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>The pause – which has now been
accepted as real by every major climate research centre – is important,
because the models’ predictions of ever-increasing global temperatures
have made many of the world’s economies divert billions of pounds into
‘green’ measures to counter  climate change.</span>


<p style="text-align: center;"><span>Those predictions now appear gravely flawed.</span>




Would that be David Rose from the The Mail on Sunday, Crash?

Try this:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/10/climate_change_sea_ice_global_cooling_and_other_nonsense.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:10am
try inserting a link using this  Insert Hyperlink

makes it easier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:10am
Scientists --- the smartest people on earth -- NOT



article-2415191-1BAED5FF000005DC-408_638x431


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:13am
Are dramatic changes in the polar ice cap normal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Browndog Browndog wrote:

Are dramatic changes in the polar ice cap normal?



Don't think anyone could answer that


It wasn't long ago the world was flat LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Browndog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 11:23am
It still is for some peopleLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grinnersawinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 1:21pm
Just one quick pet hate on global warming. I hate when people blame natural disasters on global warming.
Read historical sources, dreamtime stories etc, natural disasters have happened all the time throughout history.
If we take evidence earth is warming, its still only by 0.1% (not actual figure). It's not enough to be the difference between a flood, drought, bushfire, tornado etc. Yet some people want to blame every natural disaster on climate change. I don't understand it tbh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 1:44pm
I think I will take science over dreamtime stories thanks Grinners!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grinnersawinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by subastral subastral wrote:

I think I will take science over dreamtime stories thanks Grinners!!
Science also says natural disasters occured in past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mental Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 2:38pm
The same scientists spruiking global warming are the ones who 20 years ago told us there was a hole in the ozone layer and we'd all be fried by now.

Funnily enough you never hear about the hole in the ozone layer now they've got a new fairytale to peddle. They also told us that the Y2k bug would have planes falling out of the sky at the turn of the millennium. Did that happen?

These scientists must sit around p1ssing themselves laughing at the crap people will swallow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lastycoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 3:51pm
Ahh Scientists.  They behave a little like the statistician.

What result would you like?  I can do either.

The funding and trend of the time dictates the result.

Screw the scientific method, its the line my pockets and publish me method.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 3:58pm
yep science has contributed nothing to the world you live in Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lastycoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:28pm
Almost certainly that is what I suggested Whale.

I clearly stated that I thought that Einstein was a fraud and Newton wasnt standing on the shoulders of giants but a big steaming pile of gelati.

If you choose to follow the thread you would have noticed it was pointed particularly at "climate change".

In this regard I do believe that the science you are referring to is deeply flawed by the funding and publishing model presently in place within our universities and public institutions.

Happy to discuss these things but dont put words into my mouth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by Lastycoon Lastycoon wrote:

Almost certainly that is what I suggested Whale.

I clearly stated that I thought that Einstein was a fraud and Newton wasnt standing on the shoulders of giants but a big steaming pile of gelati.

If you choose to follow the thread you would have noticed it was pointed particularly at "climate change".

In this regard I do believe that the science you are referring to is deeply flawed by the funding and publishing model presently in place within our universities and public institutions.

Happy to discuss these things but dont put words into my mouth.


I know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote subastral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:32pm
Climate change scientists have no agenda. The only ones with an agenda are those employed by major polluters to dispute what 97 percent of scientists believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lastycoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:35pm
Seriously,

That is the best you can do?  Wow, we are looking at a outstanding intellect here.

Three posts in the thread,  one to sook about the layout and two to flame.

Maybe you should take the advice, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool..............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lastycoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:35pm
Woops, pointed at Whale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:39pm
So you accept the science you agree with and reject the science you disagree with.
Informed decision no doubt, please list your qualifations, or do you get your viewpoint from Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lastycoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2013 at 4:51pm
Whale,

While I was asleep did they suddenly create a universally accepted model for mapping this planets climate?.  

Have they tested and proved it beyond doubt using the scientific method?.

Have all the studies which have shown contrary results to these "climate change" papers and all the results of smaller related studies which appeared to show anomolous results been discredited?.

Of course they haven't.

Yes I will choose to remain sceptical.  This is a huge mysterious orb which we happen to coexist on.  I am well aware of how difficult modelling can be on scales and complexities far smaller than it.

You are entitled to you opinion and I will not begrudge you that.  But in a context such as this the least you can do is to offer something.

By the way, nice touch with the Bolt-Jones reference.  Really showed the level your batting at and where you get your info.


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