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Cliff’s Edge

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Magnolian Khan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 11:43am
51kg in the Mackinnon on Sat
Hoping Yendall can nick off on the turn and he gaps them by 5 with the light weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 11:48am
On at $7/$2.62. Also on Folkswood at $5. I think one wins and Cliff will prove mighty hard to run down.

He will need all of the weight relief though, don't read too much into it, I have this conversation on here all the time. Weight for age is weight for age - it's not a benefit or a luxury or cheating the handicapper. It's weight relief because they need it.

Look at Shoals. I backed her, yes. And the weight scenario is part of the equation. But she fell in. Otherwise 3yos would win all WFA races they compete in and the scale would be thrown out. It certainly helps though when they can race on speed or lead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 2:48pm
Looks a decent chance in a weak WFA field. I'm backing Cliff & Gingernuts. There looks to be plenty of speed on paper (usual for a 200m WFA race), so i'm risking Folkswood from the wide barrier. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

On at $7/$2.62. Also on Folkswood at $5. I think one wins and Cliff will prove mighty hard to run down.

He will need all of the weight relief though, don't read too much into it, I have this conversation on here all the time. Weight for age is weight for age - it's not a benefit or a luxury or cheating the handicapper. It's weight relief because they need it.

Look at Shoals. I backed her, yes. And the weight scenario is part of the equation. But she fell in. Otherwise 3yos would win all WFA races they compete in and the scale would be thrown out. It certainly helps though when they can race on speed or lead.


In theory a top 3yo at wfa against a moderate wfa field sounds a good idea, but is he a top 3yo? The filly flogged him.  Ace High flogged the colts he beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WarriSymbol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

On at $7/$2.62. Also on Folkswood at $5. I think one wins and Cliff will prove mighty hard to run down.

He will need all of the weight relief though, don't read too much into it, I have this conversation on here all the time. Weight for age is weight for age - it's not a benefit or a luxury or cheating the handicapper. It's weight relief because they need it.

Look at Shoals. I backed her, yes. And the weight scenario is part of the equation. But she fell in. Otherwise 3yos would win all WFA races they compete in and the scale would be thrown out. It certainly helps though when they can race on speed or lead.
Surely he doesn't get an easy pressureless lead. There are few that like to be up there in this field.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 5:05pm
That would be my concern also Warri.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breeding Above All Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 5:08pm
May run a place, but can’t see him winning.. don’t think he’s that good and he’s been fortunate with tracks playing to his advantage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

On at $7/$2.62. Also on Folkswood at $5. I think one wins and Cliff will prove mighty hard to run down.

He will need all of the weight relief though, don't read too much into it, I have this conversation on here all the time. Weight for age is weight for age - it's not a benefit or a luxury or cheating the handicapper. It's weight relief because they need it.

Look at Shoals. I backed her, yes. And the weight scenario is part of the equation. But she fell in. Otherwise 3yos would win all WFA races they compete in and the scale would be thrown out. It certainly helps though when they can race on speed or lead.


In theory a top 3yo at wfa against a moderate wfa field sounds a good idea, but is he a top 3yo? The filly flogged him.  Ace High flogged the colts he beat.

I wouldn't know how many 3yos have competed in this race, but I know you'd likely count them on one hand. The only two of note I can recall in recent memory are Casual Pass and Seaburge.

Seaburge ran a good 2nd to Awesome Rock - no star but a multiple G1 WFA winner and particularly effective at Flemington 2000m - and Casual Pass won. Seaburge had only won a 2yo maiden and the VRC Sires, before running 2nd in the Caulfield Guineas i.e. he was nothing special and has proven as much since. Casual Pass, who I believe was a serious horse but for the breakdown, had won a Geelong maiden in the same prep he won the Mackinnon, and, while he was a leading 3yo, he was winning the State Stakes and Norman Robinson - fairly comparable to Cliffs Edge who won the Norman Robinson equivalent.

My point being these two were hardly dominant, star 3yos. Same applies for the Cox Plate winners - Shamus Award couldn't beat his peers, So You Think had won a Gloaming and was beaten a mile in the Caulfield Guineas, Savabeel a Spring Champion winner who was later beaten in the Derby. I think a lot has to do with it being a 2000m race - anything can happen as we are often weak for depth at that distance in WFA ranks and the 3yos who can win a G1 WFA race over 2000m won't necessarily be dominant by the time they get there as they've probably been beaten by 3yos with more speed.

Cliff's Edge has come into his own once stepped up in trip - a lot to do with his racing style, but also his ability to cruise at a good speed and kick off it. Perfectly suited to 2000m WFA - maybe not so at Flemington where leaders have a far inferior strikerate compared to all other tracks.

Re Aloisia, I can't knock him for being belted by her. She's a star, we all know that. He did the same to the rest of the field in the Vase, including two horses who weren't beaten all that far by Ace High in the Derby.

His biggest danger is if the pressure is on start to finish. He will handle some early pressure if they then back off and let him do his thing. But if they make him work, then go again mid-race or earlier than normal, it will be very hard for him to do it at both ends like it would be for any other leader in this race - 3yo or otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2017 at 6:30pm
I meant to add that Casual Pass beat Pentastic and Fields Of Omagh - both of which would feature strongly in this race on Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnolian Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 3:08pm
Ran a super race considering the opposition
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 2:47pm
This horse is a freak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 2:48pm
Should end up WFA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 2:49pm
Cox Plate horse (just hope Winx goes overseas)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 2:56pm
How will they beat him in the Rosehill Guineas? I took $13 after the post. Now $9.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:04pm
If he improves like he did into last prep he will be nigh on unbeatable. Sometimes a bit wary of these middle distance that produce great runs over unsuitable distances early. Sometimes flattens them a bit. Ditto Ace High. They have got the runs on the board though and though the margin wasn’t great that looked pretty comfortable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:11pm
I watched a show called Winning Post on CNN the other night, they done the show at a stud farm in South Africa, low and behold out comes Canford Cliffs for the camera, looked magnificent, rich in colour and glowing with health, how come we lost him? today his son ran 1200 in 1-8-93, that's a v/g horse time, looks like his dad too .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:16pm
He’s the one I want to be on going forward. Already proven in this grade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:18pm
Anyone know the plans this prep beyond the Aust Guineas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:22pm
From what I’ve heard the Guineas is his main target at the moment, rest TBA
Could potentially bypass true Guineas if it is looking like he wants further
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Sunline Sunline wrote:

Anyone know the plans this prep beyond the Aust Guineas?

There's a nice mile and a half at Randwick in the autumn sunny, be a great race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:31pm
Hoping he goes via Rosehill Guineas!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JudgeHolden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:36pm
Kinda hope they go easy on him. Had a very tough Spring. Only 3 once though I suppose. Don’t think he’ll run a mile and a half though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 3:38pm
I don’t think he actually ‘spelled’
Spent a bit of time after Spring at Weir’s new farm at Maldon.
Then went down to Warrnambool about 6 or so weeks ago
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 4:00pm
I suppose if there is a consolation he appears to be very clean winded, hence the effort and time today what could be of a short break, there are some lovely 3 yo about, something to look foreward to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 10:45am
I see he is going to have a typical fortnightly race schedule.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 11:43am
What have you heard djebel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 11:56am
Runs in a fortnight and than the Flemington Guineas.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MichaelM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I see he is going to have a typical fortnightly race schedule.


What do you suggest master trainer? Do you have any understanding of the post race recovery rate or physiology of a horse?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 12:12pm
They are what they are..racehorses, and this one's a little above the average imo, if the programme fits into his fitness schedule take it, that's what it's there for, it's the trainers call, no good to die wondering when it's on your doorstep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by MichaelM MichaelM wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I see he is going to have a typical fortnightly race schedule.


What do you suggest master trainer? Do you have any understanding of the post race recovery rate or physiology of a horse?


Do not kid yourself into believing that is why he is on that campaign.

These "master trainers" all do the same thing.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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