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Chautauqua

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rusty nails View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rusty nails Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Passing Through Passing Through wrote:

The balance between horse welfare and the fiduciary responsibilities of the legal entities that manage him on behalf of shareholders.The balance is easy with a maiden with few prospects. Not so easy with a Ferrari in the garage you cannot drive. In this case there is a valuable asset with no apparent welfare issues other than a lack of desire to leave the barriers. I would imagine lawyers might be consulted in the case of a retirement. Rupert Legh as managing owner must explore all options before making the decision to liquidate the legal agreements, if for no other reason than to cover himself.
that's over complicating the situation.
The managing partner needs only to advise all shareholders of the current situation, provide a list of options and request stakeholders to vote on the course of action.
Or just wait,and let the stewards decide for them........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 10:47am
Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

If Chautauqua were human, he’d be a comedian.
He is just playing mind games with his humans, making them look like idiots and laughing to himself because he knows he will go home and get a feed, a rug and plenty of people fussing over him.
He has made up his mind that he doesn’t want to work anymore, can’t blme him to be honest. Just let him do what he wants to do.
If we're going to insist on attributing human emotions and thought patterns on to Chautauqua, I think it would go like this. Let's say you love your job and your very good at it ,you couldn't imagine doing anything else for a living but at the end of the day it's a job ie work. Then after you've done it for a few years and it's become a bit ho hum and routine you suddenly discover by accident that you can have all of he benefits of your job, wages life style etc, without having to go to work at all. Would you stay at home and laugh at all the fools slaving away? Cause that's what Chautauqua is doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 11:51am
You can’t deduce that he doesn’t want to race - he doesn’t want to jump from the barriers which would hardly be the same thing in his mind. If he didn’t want to race he’d turn it up in his gallops. Is he doing that?
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

I'd let him in a race now without any more trials, with a warning in the racebook and form guides. It would be fun.Big smile

Maybe he just wants to have a Stawell Gift like experience and is giving everything else a head start
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Einstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

You can’t deduce that he doesn’t want to race - he doesn’t want to jump from the barriers which would hardly be the same thing in his mind. If he didn’t want to race he’d turn it up in his gallops. Is he doing that?
 
Not the same at all. A horse can love to gallop but not want to race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Balciano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 1:51pm
I could understand the connections persevering if it was the Chautauqua of old, from his 4 and 5 year old days. But we're talking about an 8 year old who has only the 1 win and 3 placings from his 10 starts since returning from Hong Kong in 2016. His record on Good/Soft tracks during this period - 7:0-0-1.

I don't know nearly enough about horses to know why he's not jumping. But I do know the horse has nothing left to prove. Why not retire him while he's still sound? He clearly doesn't owe them anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 2:11pm
RacingNSW have banned him from being nominated in trials and races subject to a submission being made by owners as to why it should be lifted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 2:19pm
From Racing NSW - 7th August

Racing NSW Stewards have communicated with trainer Mr John Hawkes about plans for Chautauqua following the gelding's failure to jump from the barriers at Rosehill Gardens today.

Mr Hawkes advised no firm decision has been made regarding the future of Chautauqua and a decision will not be made for the next 7 days to allow some of the connections to return from overseas.

Mr Hawkes was advised that should he continue to attempt to race the gelding, Stewards would require submissions from connections outlining why Chautauqua’s nominations for barrier trials and race meetings should not be refused.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 2:32pm
Dear Racing NSW,

I am rich (read important). You need to treat me better, as is the industry standard.

Yours sincerely,
R. Legh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Einstein Einstein wrote:

Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

You can’t deduce that he doesn’t want to race - he doesn’t want to jump from the barriers which would hardly be the same thing in his mind. If he didn’t want to race he’d turn it up in his gallops. Is he doing that?

<div abp="824"> <div abp="825">Not the same at all. A horse can love to gallop but not want to race.


How they think is probably different to every individual- what they consider racing, competing - is it going at their fastest? Is it passing other runners? Does it include barriers? They’re quite cluey about whether it’s just trackwork or trials, or raceday. One of ours decided he wanted to be lengths slow after a poorly educated runner kicked him under the barriers, not only would he come out slowly after everyone was gone but he didn’t want to run anywhere near them. Chat seems to have a long memory about having a rope looped around his legs at Moonee Valley when he got scratched - in my opinion.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 4:41pm
Monty's got tickets on himself- 100k- how much of his time does that get you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anabel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Monty's got tickets on himself- 100k- how much of his time does that get you?


Lol probably worth it if it comes with a money-back guarantee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by anabel anabel wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Monty's got tickets on himself- 100k- how much of his time does that get you?


Lol probably worth it if it comes with a money-back guarantee


Has he passed on his magic to anyone or is he going to the grave with it? Surely there must be someone in Australia who knows Monty's tricks and will work a lot cheaper. I'd be surprised if Chaut's team haven't already tried.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Roberts

Here we go- books, dvd's, tours, classes- the whole shebang.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Chat seems to have a long memory about having a rope looped around his legs at Moonee Valley when he got scratched - in my opinion.


He goes in, stands quietly & comes out the front tho' after the others are well gone.
Since the Valley incident he's also trialled successfully so how do you think he's relating ropes to not jumping in company? Bearing in mind animals work within the bounds of action/reaction.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by linghi11 linghi11 wrote:

Chat seems to have a long memory about having a rope looped around his legs at Moonee Valley when he got scratched - in my opinion.


He goes in, stands quietly & comes out the front tho' after the others are well gone.
Since the Valley incident he's also trialled successfully so how do you think he's relating ropes to not jumping in company? Bearing in mind animals work within the bounds of action/reaction.


Horses are not always rational - you could probably combine Moonee Valley with something else at a later date to create this situation. Does anyone know how he’s galloping at home and if he works with mates without too much trouble?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by squibby squibby wrote:

Apples/Oranges??, there’s nothing wrong with him physically. If I was to believe what I read here the only problem he doesn’t have is cancer ( maybe e that’s the next theory I read on here). Did you see him stretch out today or like many did you just watch what was shown via the replays that never showed him hitting out strongly behind them. Yeah he didn’t jump, but damn I would love to be sitting on one that could run it’s last 400 like he did. And I am damn sure you would love to own it.


squibby should be able to answer that linghi Wink tho' a quick 400m is rather meaningless to me.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 10:36pm
LOL, I am loving it.    Seeing this big grey horse beat the best of the best humans in the training buisness.  LOL
See him in the barriers ??   Ears working over time,,,looking around.   Then.  Naaaaaah, not doing it. Big smile
Why should I ???     LOL    He is a hoot. 

animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote skippy123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 8:11am
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned (I can’t catch up
on the endless conspiracy theories about the Grey Flash) but Rupert has been overseas with his family (and possibly still is?) which may explain no pressing decision making
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skippy123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 8:23am
Also to those that believe the owners are ‘flogging a dead horse’ that is obviously injured etc etc that is being surmised on the forum, how bout you look up Rupert’s son Chris (in particular his 1997 Hawaiian Ironman finish- it’s brutal viewing) then tell me Rupert Legh doesn’t know the consequences of athletes pushing themselves.
Bottom line: there is NO way he would try and persevere if there were something wrong with the horse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 12:02pm
I did hear someone say yesterday that they were just waiting for owners to return from overseas before making any more decisions.
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 6:36pm
Exactly, no rushed / rash decisions need be made.

The horse has a quirk. It can be fixed. Its a muscle trigger memory. He is simply jarring up when the gates crash open. Could be a sound issue.. maybe ear muffs.. could just be he's way too quirky in the head..

definitely not because he's injured or past it... he might be getting on in years but his old legs can still rattle along just nicely as shown in his 'failed' trial..

If they retire him it's wise.. 

he's been a good horse to them, its not that the owners would want to see him suffer.. its purely a mind issue with him.. Im sure team Hawkes have tried every trick they know.. every different jockey..

Ouch he's just... cagey... just like John lol 
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by troppo75 troppo75 wrote:

Exactly, no rushed / rash decisions need be made.

The horse has a quirk. It can be fixed. Its a muscle trigger memory. He is simply jarring up when the gates crash open. Could be a sound issue.. maybe ear muffs.. could just be he's way too quirky in the head..

definitely not because he's injured or past it... he might be getting on in years but his old legs can still rattle along just nicely as shown in his 'failed' trial..

If they retire him it's wise.. 

he's been a good horse to them, its not that the owners would want to see him suffer.. its purely a mind issue with him.. Im sure team Hawkes have tried every trick they know.. every different jockey..

Ouch he's just... cagey... just like John lol 
It's wise to retire him....let's leave it at that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 6:26pm
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/evj.12392

I guess we must believe that all these 'statistics' were deemed 100% sound prior to their demise too Confused

Reasons for performing study

If equine conditions with high likelihood of jockey injury can be determined and subsequently prevented, jockey safety can be enhanced.

Objectives

To identify racehorse injuries or conditions with greatest risk for jockey falls and injuries.

Study design

Retrospective correlation of race‐day jockey fall and injury data with racehorse fatality data.

Methods

Thoroughbred (TB) and Quarter Horse (QH) racehorse cause of death and jockey fall and injury data for California flat races were reviewed for a 6‐year period. Race and jockey race ride population data were used to determine jockey fall and injury incidence rates relative to cause of racehorse death, and were assessed using Poisson regression. Differences in proportions were assessed using Fisher's exact, Pearson's χ2, and Cochran–Mantel–Haenszel tests.

Results

707 racehorses experienced race‐related catastrophic injury or sudden death. 199 jockeys had 601 falls with 325 injuries. Jockeys were 162 times more likely to fall (95% confidence interval 137–192; P<0.001) and 171 times more likely to be injured (95% confidence interval 140–208; P<0.001) when they rode a horse that died in a race. We infer that jockeys were more likely to fall or be injured when riding in QH races than in TB races because of a higher incidence of horse fatalities in QH races. Jockey falls occurred with 24% of TB and 36% of QH race‐related horse fatalities, and jockey injury occurred in 64% of falls. Jockey falls were most common with TB fetlock injuries and QH carpal, metacarpal and fetlock injuries; and with axial, bilateral and multiple injuries compared with appendicular, unilateral and singular injuries, respectively.

Conclusions

Prevention of the most common catastrophic injuries and conditions of the racehorse, e.g. fetlock injuries, may be most effective at decreasing rates of falls and injuries to horseracing jockeys during racing.

And these?

For a one year period from 1 August 2016 to 31 July 2017, the Coalition for the Protection of Racehorses has collected data from the stewards reports from every state and territory in Australia, compiling a detailed report of the horses who have died in racing and the reasons why – something that is not made available to the public each year to the public by the industry itself.

Key Findings

  • 137 horses killed on track for a number of reasons most commonly for catastrophic front limb injury (75)
  • On average one horse will die on Australian racetracks every 2.6 days
  • 5 horses collapsed and died
  • 11 horses died from cardiac causes
  • 6 horses died from bleeds
  • The state with the highest recorded deaths was NSW (59) followed by VIC (26)
  • The most dangerous age for a racehorse was 5 years old
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2018 at 11:47pm
Have they ever used a blind fold and/or barrier blanket on him?
Seemed to work okay for Black Caviar and Winx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparticus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 9:50am
Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

Have they ever used a blind fold and/or barrier blanket on him?
Seemed to work okay for Black Caviar and Winx

His problem isn't going IN to the barrier, its going OUT of it LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2018 at 11:49am
Originally posted by sparticus sparticus wrote:

Originally posted by crooked_gambler crooked_gambler wrote:

Have they ever used a blind fold and/or barrier blanket on him?
Seemed to work okay for Black Caviar and Winx


His problem isn't going IN to the barrier, its going OUT of it LOL




Yes aware of that.
But sometimes you can trick them with gear so that they don’t know they are in the barriers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 3:47pm

Horse whisperer’s impassioned plea to Chautauqua’s owners

Horse whisperer Monty Roberts wants a chance to help Chautauqua race again.Horse whisperer Monty Roberts wants a chance to help Chautauqua race again.

The man dubbed the horse whisperer, equine behaviour specialist Monty Roberts, has made an impassioned plea to the connections of Chautauqua to give him the chance to “cap” his career by getting the crestfallen star racing again.

The grey gelding is not permitted to race having failed to jump from the barriers in several trials and is running out of chances in the eyes of the stewards.

Chautauqua is trained by John Hawkes in partnership with his sons Wayne and Michael, who have reportedly enjoyed some encouraging signs in the past seven days with the eight-year-old’s manners.

The owners, headed by Rupert Legh, have made submissions to the stewards to keep the door open. Further failures to jump away are guaranteed to lead to nominations being rejected.

Speaking from the US on the weekend, Roberts told The Australian he had been in limbo, waiting for a call in the middle of last week from Legh to green light a trip down under.

He has been in discussions for a month and is “sad, not angry” that Chautauqua is not getting the best help.

“I can’t give you the answer from 13,000km away without a personal connection to the horse and see what his answers are,” Roberts said.

“I have more opportunity to help this horse more than anybody on the face of the earth.

“I am dying to do this horse, come and help him. This is a champion. I’m 83. What better way to cap my career. Why wouldn’t I want to help?

“I can’t guarantee I have the answer. The horse has the final answer and I haven’t met the horse. I just need a chance.”

Roberts came to Sydney five years ago to sort out the issues of a horse called Carlton House, raced by the Queen and trained at the time by Gai Waterhouse. His philosophy is simple.

“Cause it to be something it wants to do. Not something it has to do,” he said.

Roberts spoke with Legh about a month ago. Legh has since spoken to Roberts’ eldest daughter Debbie, who handles the arrangements, between six and 10 times. “Part of me wants to say forget it. The whole group is not being fair with me, but I then think about the horse. I am not upset with anybody about this. I am sad,” Roberts said.

“Every day they try something their way it increases the potential for a problem that I can’t solve. Every day they take away from me increases my chances of failure.”

Roberts needs to know before the weekend if his experience is to be called on.

He can find five days to spend with Chautauqua, but may need as little as 48 hours to turn the horse around.

“They’ve got me with my back to the wall. I have commitments that I have to live up to,” Roberts said. “All the owners are being loyal to John Hawkes and every trainer wants their owners to be loyal, but he’s tried his things.”

Legh said it is a case of taking small steps at this stage.

“We’re working towards an end result with the horse and we’re in contact with Monty, but at the moment we haven’t employed his services,” Legh said. “We’re not saying we won’t. It’s a decision we’ll make later in his preparation and we’re hopeful we won’t need to.”

Speaking on radio yesterday, Wayne Hawkes said Legh was in discussions with Racing NSW chairman of stewards Marc Van Gestel.

“The biggest thing with him (Chautauqua) is he isn’t hurting anybody. Everyone’s doing their best and having a crack. The only one left is Monty, but I’m not sure that even he’s that good,” Hawkes said.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 3:59pm
Ho hum. They said on PPM this morning that Chau had jumped properly 2 or 3 times recently in private. Definitely jumped today with two others prior to official trials.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Ho hum. They said on PPM this morning that Chau had jumped properly 2 or 3 times recently in private. Definitely jumped today with two others prior to official trials.

Why Hawkes and connections are not asking Racing Authorities and Stewards for permission to trial him between races is beyond me.

Give him the chance on raceday with the adrenaline that comes with parading, to see if he jumps officially. 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skippy123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 4:08pm
Again- Rupert has been on an extended overseas holiday with his family until recently - I don’t think there have been any games played on his behalf
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