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Pazman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Mar 2009 at 7:17pm
Jockey slings - What is the appropriate amount to give and is it necessary or common now days?
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Dichez View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dichez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2009 at 8:40pm

Not many sling jockeys these days......... but I always have $100 bet on my horse for the jockey and $100 for the stable.... say you get 7's they get $700 each and cost me $200

Being punctual means you spend most of your life waiting for others
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2009 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Dichez Dichez wrote:

Not many sling jockeys these days......... but I always have $100 bet on my horse for the jockey and $100 for the stable.... say you get 7's they get $700 each and cost me $200


What about races >city class? where prize money is much higher and the odds are not so good. Say it's a $500k race and you win at 3s. You would look a bit silly giving the Jockey/Stable $300each when you've just won $325k. Better of not giving at all. Shout a celebration dinner at a good resturant?

What is the normal appropriate etiquette for a sling in races >city class? a percentage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2009 at 9:06pm
Stuff em... they already get paid to ride and a percentage. Owner has their hand in their pocket enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2009 at 9:23pm
What happened to grossing up the jock to 10%? Practice opf a bygone era?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sam14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2009 at 9:41pm
i always give them a bit if they win for me for sure, the old saying money talks...
Little Bassie Murphy knows how to ride winners. Back him all day everyday.   D.K Weir=WINNERS=MONEY.      'And Knockout races away with the cup'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fair Embrace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 12:57am
5% of the prizemoney is the norm. Alot of owners and trainers in the bush back their horses and sling from that. In the city most trainers that sling will bill 7% or 8% to their owners. That's the agreement. I feel that if you are paying a work rider to ride your horse the majority of the time a sling should not be necessary, but if you have a jockey riding your horse in work a sling should be mandatory.
I love the way Grug is complaining about putting his hand in his pocket all the time. Jockeys that ride work and don't get paid have nothing to pull out of their pocket.
Imagine riding a horse every morning for three months, ten to fifteen minutes everyday, so said horse breaks down and goes for a spell, same horse comes back six months later and jockey rides it for another four months before it trials, jockey gets paid $50.00 for this quarter of which is tax. So for 45 hours of work put into a horse jockey is rewarded less that $1.00 per hour. And people wonder why they complain?
Back to slings good owners sling, bad owners don't, if my owners don't sling I sling out of my own pocket and tell them to pick their horse up. But I also tell my owners that if you don't have X amount of money to throw down the toilet every month get out of racehorse ownership, not saying they won't win a race but if you need to win races to stay in horses then you shouldn't own any in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 1:05am

If you take that line of thought then the next time you get a quote for work to be done on your property, i.e. build a shed, then you should pay them for doing the quote regardless of them winning the job or not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 1:06am

It just part of the job and every little thing you do does not have to be itemised and financially rewarded.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Ear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 2:50am
I believe that jockeys are entitled in many cases to slings. Its different maybe, if a rider picks up a cold ride, having never ridden the horse before, but Australian jockeys 5% of the prize, is equal to the lowest in the mainstream racing world. I reasonably sure that the riders in the UK get 7 - 8% (similar in HK), and the stablestaff get 2%.
The big advantage Australian jockeys have over those in many countries is their ability to ride up to 6 days a week at $160 a losing ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stagg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 3:08am
sling the staff/trainer before the jocks unless they are working with the horse all the way through is how i do it. most cases jocks get on for 5 mins when everyone else has done the real work to get the horse there.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the bushman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 3:12am
$750--- 1k for city winner, $300---$500 for provincal/ country winner, that is norm WA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HUSSLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 3:41am
How much do they sling the owner after a bad ride
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 4:13am
Originally posted by the bushman the bushman wrote:

$750--- 1k for city winner, $300---$500 for provincal/ country winner, that is norm WA
 
Thanks Bushman- that was what was suggested from a few trainers.
 
On the point of slings.
 
How much would I have to pay a Jockey who tips me a city race winner that he is riding in? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keyser soze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 4:57am
Not sure if all trainers do it but I know Mick Price has a 2.5% Winnings "Staff Fund" policy which equates to the numbers Bushman quoted, and it goes on the training bill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Splinter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 5:16am
Pazman.....If you part-own a horse that wins a $500K race at 3's, then I think working out a suitable sling is the least of your problems.....As far as a jockey tipping you a winner and expecting payment, I thought it was illegal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Track Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 6:05am
There was a time that the industry ran from the owner and trainer who had to set up a horse for a win.  The jock of course had to be complicit and run it "dead" a couple of times so he needed to be compensated too.

But sorry the slinging days are long gone!!!

These days on training bills, every single charge you can think of is covered on top of the daily training fee. 

This includes a couple of real rip offs - eg a full float charge and attendance fee on race day.  So, if the trainer has 10 horses racing on the day and he charges everyone $80 attendance he makes $800.

There is no way I am slinging the stable an extra 2.5%, take it out of the trainers 10% of prize money - not mine.    And if the trainer wants to back the horse for the stable - he can feel very free to do so.

And given that I lose money racing horses, I am not slinging jockeys (who are infinitely more wealthy than I am) for doing their job either. 

Whoever pays the bills can share the spoils!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dichez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 6:30am
Originally posted by Pazman Pazman wrote:

Originally posted by Dichez Dichez wrote:

Not many sling jockeys these days......... but I always have $100 bet on my horse for the jockey and $100 for the stable.... say you get 7's they get $700 each and cost me $200


What about races >city class? where prize money is much higher and the odds are not so good. Say it's a $500k race and you win at 3s. You would look a bit silly giving the Jockey/Stable $300each when you've just won $325k. Better of not giving at all. Shout a celebration dinner at a good resturant?

What is the normal appropriate etiquette for a sling in races >city class? a percentage?
I only wish I had a horse that good........ if that happened I would consider something different, but more for the stable than the jockey... I have a horse with a prominent melbourne trainer and he recomends (only if the owners wish) that the stable recieves 5% of city winning prizemoney and it is shared amongst all the staff
Being punctual means you spend most of your life waiting for others
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 7:08am
Dichez - I like what yo said about your trainer recommending the size of the sling. This particular case it was recommended to pay this particular amount but he also added "take in mind that the bigger the win the bigger the sling for the jockey and stable". 5% of $325K is a big bonus for someone who is on awarded wages anyway - might be ok in 1940s. More than likely the horse is a rock star because of it's ability rather than what the jockey or stable staff had done.

I say 1% for the stable staff. 10% trainer 5% Jockey. Remember it costs over $40,000 per month to keep a rock star in training, so there's plenty of $$s there for the trainer to look after his staff. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 7:11am
Adjustment $4000, not $40,000.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keyser soze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 7:12am
$40,000 per month!!??!!?? WTF?
 
Assume you mean $4,000 Paz?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dichez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 7:24am
Stable staff are the real deservers of a sling........ a few days after a win I arrive at the stable with breakfast for all the staff and their sling.... and guess who and whos horses are best looked after or should say presented
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 7:34am
Originally posted by Dichez Dichez wrote:

Stable staff are the real deservers of a sling........ a few days after a win I arrive at the stable with breakfast for all the staff and their sling.... and guess who and whos horses are best looked after or should say presented

Yes, I agree - we do 2 slabs of Corona's for every win but no slings as yet till now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote straight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 8:41am
ok this is fact one of australias promient trainers works like this trainer gets 10% stable gets 5% jockey got 7 1/2% bloodstock agent gets 5% thats 27and a half % off the top the horse im talking about won group racers thats why the jockey (one of aust best) got the extra now if you had 10% and the horse in question won a million dollar race first place would be 650k so 10% should be 65k but in fact it would be 47,125, but im not complaining it was a great ride.The purpose is their are different ways of slinging
u dont have to b dead to b stiff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 9:36am
Jockeys aren't allowed to tip I thought?  I wouldn't trust them anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Occy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 10:21am
I believe people are suggesting that they back their own horses and if the jockey wins, obviously they win the bet and thus that money goes to the jockey.
 
As to slinging stable staff. Really, they just need to increase their wages and stop treating them and apprentices like slave labour and you will see people a lot happier and you could stop spending what your horse wins on other people
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Occy Occy wrote:

 they just need to increase their wages and stop treating them and apprentices like slave labour and you will see people a lot happier and you could stop spending what your horse wins on other people
 

These days Occy, all stable staff are on awarded wages so they have all the benefits like workers comp, sick leave like all workers. Yes the wages are low but I mean what do you expect? stable staff are pretty much uneducated people doing not a very important job in society. I just think 1% and may be some beers or a morning feed like someone here suggested is satisfactory.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Fair Embrace Fair Embrace wrote:

Back to slings good owners sling, bad owners don't, if my owners don't sling I sling out of my own pocket and tell them to pick their horse up.
 
hahaha. you must be a hero.
 
i think of slings this way. if the trainer tells you to back it with confidence, you have enough on so that you can look after him if it wins. if the jockey seconds that motion, you have enough on for him to cover him aswell.
 
if they tell you everytime it races it will win, change trainers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Grug Grug wrote:

If you take that line of thought then the next time you get a quote for work to be done on your property, i.e. build a shed, then you should pay them for doing the quote regardless of them winning the job or not.

 
how good would that be grug?
 
i think it's fair to say FE has no real idea what it's like on the other side of the fence. pretty standard trainer/jockey who thinks that owners are bottemless pits of money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2009 at 10:45am
Originally posted by Track Track wrote:

There was a time that the industry ran from the owner and trainer who had to set up a horse for a win.  The jock of course had to be complicit and run it "dead" a couple of times so he needed to be compensated too.

But sorry the slinging days are long gone!!!

These days on training bills, every single charge you can think of is covered on top of the daily training fee. 

This includes a couple of real rip offs - eg a full float charge and attendance fee on race day.  So, if the trainer has 10 horses racing on the day and he charges everyone $80 attendance he makes $800.

There is no way I am slinging the stable an extra 2.5%, take it out of the trainers 10% of prize money - not mine.    And if the trainer wants to back the horse for the stable - he can feel very free to do so.

And given that I lose money racing horses, I am not slinging jockeys (who are infinitely more wealthy than I am) for doing their job either. 

Whoever pays the bills can share the spoils!


 
here here
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