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Best in Show, where are they ?

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Lordy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 9:43am
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

His 6th Dam "Late Date" was 1935 USA Handicap Horse of Year

I have always loved Umatilla, how far could he have gone with the best of mares.

I'm rapt
Agree.  Very under rated stallion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daraabah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 11:03am
Huge Offers For Boom Youngster Sincero
Offers to buy exciting 3YO gelding Sincero (Umatilla-Yours As Always, by Prego) have "reached 7 figures" reported The Daily Telegraph. Sincero (an $8,000 yearling at the 2009 Inglis Classic Sale in Sydney) notched his 3rd successive win with victory over 1400m at Randwick last Saturday, taking his record to 5 wins & a runner-up from 8 starts. (Dec 21)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2010 at 6:35pm
interesting story on breednet this morning about him.
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 1:41pm
There is a lot of incorrect information being written.



Reckless Driver is a stakes place getter who ran 38 times
Tytola (By Last Tycoon)on Yours as Always Pedigree is a Gr 1 winner in South Africa (bis inbred)
Yours as always is a half to 2 stakes placegetters, and 1. Jenufa by Last Tycoon) is also inbred to Best in Show.

Yours as always was raced by Goree Stud and ran 5 times and was unplaced once 3 3rds and 2nd

8 progeny to race 6 winners

As an example today in "stallions" excerpt:

One you will all recognise as the famous overachieving blue hen, Best In Show who is the ancestress within four generations of over 100SWs worldwide, almost a third of them Gr1 winners, including such luminaries as Redoute’s Choice, Al Maher, Hurricane Sky and Umatilla in this part of the world alone.

The other is the less well known, but arguably more beautifully named Reckless Driver ( Traffic Judge – Stolen Hour ) who has to date been responsible for a much more modest family. Reckless Driver was unraced, her daughter Catherine Linton was unraced, her daughter Love Lost was unplaced, her daughter Yours As Always, the dam of Sincero, managed a major advance by being Sydney metro placed. The stage is set for a quantum leap forward with the appearance of Sincero who seems set to become the best horse, the only Gr1 winner from this branch of the family.

Wrong wrong wrong
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 1:55pm
Daughter Best in Show 78 s/winners

Mother Stolen Hour 104 s/winners 5th best damline in northern hemisphere

Grandmother Late Date 110 s/winners


but it would be via her two daughters Reckless Driver and Best in Show that she would push Torpenhow’s family into the international regard it maintains today.

Reckless Driver, by Traffic Judge, is currently the number two horse from this last named pair…though she does have several daughters and grand-daughters that could cause a shift in her position. She ran third in the Mermaid Stakes, and was considered a reliable performer on the track. Mildly prolific as a broodmare, she was the ancestress of $200,000 + earner La Bonita, Cranwood Special and Cloverleaf Handicap winner Greenbriar, Schuylkill, Barn Swallow, Laughing Gull, and Bourbonettes Stakes winner Pretty Sham…and the exceptional Aussie racehorse Tolanda…winner of the VATC Mannerism, VRC Devon Park Stud, VRC Hardy Bros Prelude, VRC Let’s Elope, and VATC Summoned Stakes.
A full sister to Reckless Driver, Best in Show has demonstrated the fact that she is the prime mover in this family’s current successes. A winner at two and three, her major trackside victory came in the Comely Stakes…but that would pale in comparison to her record as one of America’s great “Blue Hen” broodmares and the title of Broodmare of the Year in 1982. The dam of 17 foals…her offspring have journeyed far and wide…producing champions in as far flung places as Ireland and Japan. The best of her produce have shown themselves to be:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 6:32pm
Presumably 'stallions' who get their data from bloodhound keep broodmares as unraced when they haven't researched the pedigree.  This happens occasionally in the Arion database too - most particularly for very old mares who don't get onto catalogue pages anymore.  Although stakes horses should be right all the time.

Arion has Reckless Driver:

Race Record:

9 wins, 3d Atlantic City Mermaid S., Gr.3.

 

Produce Record: Dam of ten foals, eight to race, five winners.

1968 c. Fast Driver, by Sadair. 5 wins in U.S.A.

1969 c. GREENBRIAR, by Nashua. 12 wins, Thistledown Cranwood H., L, Gates Mills H., L, Wade Park H., L, Cloverleaf H., L, 3d Thistledown Springtime H., L, Lake Erie H., L, River Downs Mill Creek H., L.

1971 f. Reckless Reign, by Nashua. 3 wins in U.S.A. Dam of-

Adorable Dori (Dance Bid). 2 wins at 2, 3d Woodbine Natalma S., Can-2.

Coriland. 2 wins-1 at 2-at 6f in U.S.A. Dam of-

Queen Quillo. 7 wins from 1000m to 1900m in Aust.

Darby Prospect. Unraced. Dam of-

Bossy Michel. 5 wins in U.S.A.

Gala Prospectress. Winner in U.S.A.

Pulsate. 7 wins from 6f to 1m in U.S.A. Sire.

Thunder and Reign. 3 wins at 6f in U.S.A.

Reckless Star. Winner at 2 in U.S.A. Dam of-

Reckless Blue. 2 wins in U.S.A.

Reckless Baba. 6 wins in U.S.A.

Petillo. Winner in U.S.A. Sire.

Telephone Belle. Winner in U.S.A.

Irish Wrecker. Unraced. Dam of-

Irish Giboulee. 4 wins-1 at 2- in U.S.A.

Reckless Winds. 11 wins in U.S.A.

Lead Tongs. Winner in U.S.A.

1972 f. Reckless Date, by Nashua. 2 wins in U.S.A. Dam of-

GREATCAESAR'SGHOST (Collier). 3 wins-2 at 2, Ellis Inaugural S., L, 2d Ellis Lieutenant Governor of Kentucky S., L, Oaklawn Dixie Belle S., L, 3d Oaklawn Martha Washington S., L.

Proven Date. 2 wins at 1½m, 16½f in Ire.

Spigot Shaft. 5 wins from 7f to 8¼f in GB.

Tigershark. 2 wins in U.S.A.

Reckless Angel. 3 wins in U.S.A.

Jeffrey Lee. Winner in U.S.A.

1973 c. Anthony L., by Advocator. Raced once.

1975 f. Catherine Linton, by High Echelon. Unraced. Dam of-

ZAR BITTER (Artaius). 13 wins in GB and Italy, Milan Premio UNPCPS, L, 3d Milan Premio Boschetti, L.

Imposing. 3 wins at 1¼m, 11f in Ire. and Sweden, Curragh Autumn H., Phoenix Park Pedens International H.

The Lionheart. 2 wins at 1m, Goodwood Paul Masson H.

Perplex - Lord Sussex (Mal.). 3 wins at 1400m, 1600m in GB and Mal.

For Sure for Sure. 18 wins-1 at 2-at 1m in GB and Italy.

Try My Linton. 7 wins-1 at 2- in GB and Italy.

Love Lost. Unplaced. Dam of-

Jenufa (Last Tycoon). 4 wins-1 at 2, 3d Philadelphia Wintergreen S., L, Goodwood BBC Auction Graduation S.

1977 f. Pretty Driver, by Lt Stevens. Placed at 2 in U.S.A. Dam of-

PRETTY SHAM (Sham). 6 wins-4 at 2, Aqueduct Barn Swallow S., L, Meadowlands Laughing Gull S., L, Philadelphia Schuylkill S., L, Latonia Bourbonette S., L.

COLONEL HILL (Temperence Hill). 9 wins-1 at 2, US$234,120, Laurel Devil's Bag S., L, Dancing Count S., L, 2d Laurel Private Terms S., L, Maryland Juvenile Championship S., L.

William Bray Sr.. 3 wins in U.S.A.

Pretty Doon. 3 wins-1 at 2- in U.S.A.

Maganda. Winner at 6f in U.S.A. Dam of-

Madcapade. Winner at 2 in U.S.A.

Pretty Flame. Winner at 6½f in U.S.A.

1978 f. Reckless Knight, by True Knight. Unplaced. Dam of-

Sir Gossip. 2 wins in U.S.A.

Mr. Lee Mr. Lee. 2 wins in U.S.A.

I Recken So. Winner in U.S.A.

Reckless Woman. Raced twice. Dam of-

Reckless Mema. Winner in U.S.A.

1980 c. Full In, by Full Out. 3 wins in U.S.A.

1982 f. Dareing Driver, by Sadair. Unraced. Dam of-

Viva St Paul's. 6 wins to 1200m in HK.


The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 7:25am
Another SW by Redoute's from a Umatilla mare yesterday in Tranquility.  That is a very close cross 3 x 3 to Dancing Show.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 10:41pm
Reng,

I have her sale catalogue page in front of me Inglis Lot 95

Catherine Linton , unraced dam of:

"2 Stakeswinners"

ZAR BITTER Milan Premio UNPCPS Stakes listed, 3rd Boschetti stakes Listed

AND

"PERPLEX" Stakes winner of "Malaysian Ulu Kinta Stakes

Straight off the sale page. Is Inglis right or wrong??

On "Reckless Driver" 9 wins 3rd Atlantic city Mermaid stakes
TOLANDA 12 wins 2 x gr 3 races in Aus and dam of
TYTOLA ( by Last Tycoon)6 wins Greyville Premiers Stakes "Gr 1"

Love Lost Unplaced

Producer of 2 stakes placegetters
Its cryin time (opera prince)
Jenufa ( Last Tycoon)

I'm not the first one to press the button on line breeding to "Stolen Hour" in this Mitochondrial Damline

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2010 at 10:59pm
Reng , Your list is incomplete too.

"Moltas" leading 3yr colt in Sweden GONE SWEDEN
Yours as always brother "Its Cryin Time" 3rd Dayana Stakes listed GONE AUSTRALIA

You've only included U.S records

International pedigree's are losing their produce "down the cracks"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2010 at 3:55pm
Like I said - unless they are in recent catalogues they are likely to be missing information.  Being that far back, they tend to drop off the page and don't get researched.  It's a shame, but you can always email the reference through to Arion and Bloodhound and they will (probably) update their databases.
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 3:32pm
Another smashed class record @ 1600m at Randwick today

His Blueblood family will be happy to call him "cousin"

Redoutes is grandson of Dancing Show, Sincero is grandson of Dancing Show

Redoutes carries the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show, so does Sincero

Neat trick eh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 4:21pm
I take it PT that it was your good self who was interviewed in the Sportsman for this weekend ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2010 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by progeny test progeny test wrote:

Another smashed class record @ 1600m at Randwick today

His Blueblood family will be happy to call him "cousin"

Redoutes is grandson of Dancing Show, Sincero is grandson of Dancing Show

Redoutes carries the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show, so does Sincero

Neat trick eh

Progeny Test,

Congrats on breeding such a nice horse. It is no doubt a big thrill.

In regards to your statements above....Yes....and No....

Firstly, MmtDNA only passes from daughter to daughter, a son gets it but he can't pass it on so while Umatilla had the same mtDNA as Redoute's Choice, he didn't pass it on (neither does Redoute's Choice) to any of his progeny, so Sincero doesn't specifically "carry the mitochrondial DNA of Dancing Show"...what Sincero does have (hopefully) is the same mtDNA haplotype as Stolen Hour, which should be the same mtDNA haplotype as Best in Show and thus Umatilla, Hurricane Sky and Redoute's Choice.

Secondly, while it is very important in ATP production and other functions it is apparent that just sharing the same mtDNA doesn't mean that you are going to be a good horse or not. If it was the case, you would see the bulk, if not all good horses coming from the one female line. mtDNA should not be used as some type of de-facto Bruce Lowe breeding system with the thought that being from particular families being more important than others. We just don't know enough about how mtDNA works in its interaction with genes to be absolute about how important mtDNA actually is. It is most likely that there will be genes existing in the nucleus that will influence/interact with mtDNA to help superior athletic production but until that becomes clear, suggesting that mtDNA is solely responsible for superior production isn't wise. 



Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy.....Lord Fandango...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2010 at 8:34pm
Well yes Byron, But Dancing Show gets her mito from Stolen Hour.

The biggest trick will be to do it again. I will be happy just getting a city winner.

Thankyou again for your well wishes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 10:13pm
Always Loyal (Bradbury's Luck - Be Faithful) ran 3rd in the Starcraft Quality at the Gold Coast on Saturday.  Has Best In Show as her 4th dam.

Biggles is the half brother by Jet Spur and is scheduled to trial tomorrow morning at Doomben.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 7:44am
Square Up (4F x 3M) to Dancing Show - early days yet before I get carried away!
Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 9:42am
He's actually got a 2 x 3 cross of 3/4 siblings in Hurricane Sky and Shantha's Choice.  Is a pretty easy cross to replicate given the multitude of Redoute's Choice sons at stud.  Will be interesting to see how many other times we see this cross and how it performs over the next few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 9:55am
Dead right Lordy!

There are a few other factors in his pedigree that drew me into taking a share in him. The Blushing Groom x Nijinsky cross + the crossing of Northern Dancer 5 times ... + I like some of the duplications and ancestors when you take it back 8 generations (Red Sunset etc) + a couple of other powerful mixes  ...

Breeding helps but you also need that 75% of luck factor!!!
Current Stable - Soul Star & Adivinar + Lady Vega
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 11:31am
Originally posted by Lordy Lordy wrote:

Always Loyal (Bradbury's Luck - Be Faithful) ran 3rd in the Starcraft Quality at the Gold Coast on Saturday.  Has Best In Show as her 4th dam.
Biggles is the half brother by Jet Spur and is scheduled to trial tomorrow morning at Doomben.


How do you find out the results? I bought their 1/2 sister for $2000 and have a Umatilla and Spinning world colt now from her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 2:01pm

If you're referring to the trial reults you won't find any for Doomben as they were postponed due to the wet track.  Looking to hold them on Thursday but with storms forecast I don't see things improving by then. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2011 at 2:33pm
Thanks Lordy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2011 at 7:42pm
It is going to be a few years before we know but a client just bred a cracking Redoute's Choice filly out of a Spinning World (Minne Hauk) mare with her next dam by El Gran Senor.

Abel Tasman...Keen Ice...Divisidero....Verrazano...Catchy.....Lord Fandango...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orpen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2011 at 8:35pm
Buyers have a few Best in Show options at the Classic sale:

Of the yearlings out of Hurricane Sky mares : Domesday (3), Stratum(2), God's Own(2) & NASD (1) all have the it.  3 via Monroe(Sir Ivor), and 5 via Show Lady(Sir Ivor) (doubling up).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 1:01pm
Not quite from the family but an interesting pedigree just the same Shared Reflection by Umatilla out of a Hurricane Sky mare.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 1:36pm
Shared Reflections 2m x 3m Dancing Show, serious inbreeding to one of the best.  Why do it any other way?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progeny test Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Isis Isis wrote:

Shared Reflections 2m x 3m Dancing Show, serious inbreeding to one of the best.  Why do it any other way?


Gai Waterhouse's new 2yr old city winner at Warwick Farm today,

Umatilla wow !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 4:55pm
Interestingly, apart from another Flaming Top relation there's very little in the way of sibling relationships for 6 gens or more in Shared Reflections' pedigree.
 
Nor from what I can see any outstanding top and bottom nicks.
 
So it's arguably down to either luck or the 8f family.  Wink
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 4:55pm
You could count the number of Umatillas she has had on one finger I'd imagine ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 5:00pm
Absolutely.
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2011 at 9:38pm
Hey Runfer, don't forget that Nijinsky/Flaming Top comes from the same Torpenhow family as Best in Show/Stolen Hour.
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