Join up at Crownbet - Click here - Crownbet is Thoroughbred Village’s premier betting partner - Join here now
Forum Home Forum Home > Horse Racing - Public Forums > Racing Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Australia's Whip Rules
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Click here for the Thoroughbred Village Home Page - Australia's Premier Online Horse Racing Community. For village news, follow @TBVillage on Twitter. Also follow @Villagebet on Twitter for racing tips. Sign up for the village newsletter by clicking here: Newsletter Signup. To contact the Mayor by email: Click Here.

Australia's Whip Rules

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
Message
Luva Punt View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luva Punt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 8:17am
There is an easy answer. Make the jockey accountable. Increase the fines to $10,000 for every additional strike in breach of the rules. You will see jockeys conforming to the rules immediately. If it doesn't have the desired effect, increase it to $15,000. Suddenly you won't have a problem whatsoever. To start disqualifying horses would penalise punters and owners, which would just make racing more dodgy than it is.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links
Click here to view the promotions at Crownbet.


Back to Top
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 8:38am
Its a padded whip fiddlesticks , remove the stupid rule.

Back to Top
Luva Punt View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luva Punt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 8:54am
The only reason the whip rule is not being adhered to is:

1). The stewards are doing nothing to enforce it.
2). Jockeys are just breaching the rule because the current penalties are just a bandaid measur.

It is a no brainer, increase the financial penalties for any jockey who breaches the rules.

We won't even be having this discussion if the penalties are far more severe.
Back to Top
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 9:39am
We won't be having it if we get rid of the dumb rule
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 4761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

We won't be having it if we get rid of the dumb rule


I'm with you mate, I wonder how many races Octagonal would have won without the persuader, and many more top class horse I have seen in my time including Tulloch who at times needed a little reminder, the rules an ass, and they crucify Margaret for her thoughts, go figure!
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Its a padded whip fiddlesticks , remove the stupid rule.


What does that mean, "It's a padded whip" ?




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

We won't be having it if we get rid of the dumb rule


I do agree with this.

Although I suspect differently to you.

We should have the same rule as they have in Europe and I suspect the US.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
bradjm View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 6143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

Its a padded whip fiddlesticks , remove the stupid rule.



What does that mean, "It's a padded whip" ?





What do you think it means

The new padded whips were introduced in 2009 replacing the conventional whips, to placate idiots that have nothing to do with horses.
Back to Top
RED HUNTER View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: PERTH
Status: Offline
Points: 14936
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 1:57pm
PADDED WHIP

"DAYDREAM EXPLORER"resents it

Go to Kembla race 1 SATURDAY 10 JUNE


THE WHIP STILL WORKS FINE
Back to Top
Gay3 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Ballarat
Status: Offline
Points: 28697
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 2:20pm
I noted Lachie King put the whip away over the last 100m on Savannah Moon y'day at Swan Hill & she did noticably lift to win narrowly, a fact he made mention of in his interview.
Pretty rare to see green kids have the courage to do this but he's had a super grounding & imo, a few more brains than some Smile
I see Nikata got time for overuse x 3 prior to the last 100m with her serial offender record landing her the suspension.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 4761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:32pm
Good point Gay3 , the young lad has a great tutor if his dad is who I think it may be, there has been a number of times I've seen young jocks hitting a bit low ( flank area) and wondering why they can't " read." the resentment or horses fading while under the whip, the ones that can feel this are either naturals or mature beyond their years, but this should also be shown to the young ones at apprentice school, if anyone had the privilege to watch Geoff Lane , Bill Williamson , or Billy Cook they would understand that having your horse fully balanced and at full stride before the last resort is applied, the debate on the whip rule imo will always cause angst among the racing fraternity, but really it should be back to the apprentice school under the guidance of someone like Darren Gauci.
Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 14314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:37pm
Some years ago prior to the new rules I was on a roughie ew at Sandown. Loomed up over the last furlong and a half but instead of continuing his whip riding, on three occasions his apprentice jockey reverted to hand and heels. Each time he went for the whip the horse visibly surged - something I've rarely seen. Horse went down by a half neck opr so iirc. Jock's intermittent use of the whip undoubtedly meant the diff between winning and losing. That experience is one of the reasons I don't support banning of the whip. Some horses, esp those educated under its use, undoubtedly respond to it.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:41pm
LOL


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

We won't be having it if we get rid of the dumb rule


I do agree with this.

Although I suspect differently to you.

We should have the same rule as they have in Europe and I suspect the US.


We should have the same rule as Hong Kong.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:48pm
What is their rule ?

They do have the very best hand picked jockeys up there.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 14314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:48pm
Smile 
Had dismissed that from my memory until Gay's comment djebel  but the recollection still irks me somewhat. Fortunately for the jockey I've forgotten both his and the horse's name. 
Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

What is their rule ?

They do have the very best hand picked jockeys up there.


They don't have one Wink
Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:55pm
(3) The Stewards may punish a jockey if in their opinion he has used his whip to excess or in an improper or inappropriate manner.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

What is their rule ?

They do have the very best hand picked jockeys up there.


They don't have one Wink

I guess they can do that in their environment.

As I said they have the best hand picked jockeys up there who know what they and their horses are doing.

When I watch footage of old races I cringe at the slather and whack they got away with back in the day.






STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

What is their rule ?

They do have the very best hand picked jockeys up there.


They don't have one Wink

I guess they can do that in their environment.

As I said they have the best hand picked jockeys up there who know what they and their horses are doing.

When I watch footage of old races I cringe at the slather and whack they got away with back in the day.




Pavlovian conditioning.

They were doing things the right way back then, if you don't ride like that you fail to give your horse every opportunity to win.
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 4761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

What is their rule ?

They do have the very best hand picked jockeys up there.


They don't have one Wink


I guess they can do that in their environment.

As I said they have the best hand picked jockeys up there who know what they and their horses are doing.

When I watch footage of old races I cringe at the slather and whack they got away with back in the day.



Is that why they were lured o/s to ride for royalty and the mega rich , pity the
" slather and whack" wasn't employed more today especially for the ones that go around in the human race!
Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 14314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:13pm
Agree djebel and whips were a lot harder then as well. Don't know when it was introduced but we had the overuse rule (think it was something like 'unnecessary use of the whip') for decades and I recall a few jocks being sanctioned for it. It was generally only applied when horses were being continuously belted despite having no hope of finishing in the placings.

I know little about them but would have thought spurs are a bigger issue
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:15pm
I am not talking George Moores day, I am talking more 80s and 90s.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
3blindmice View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 14314
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:21pm
Cultural change was necessary and overdue even if the new rule is hit and miss. Most jockeys are far more aware these days and are being trained for every second stride hits, which is a both a worthy skill and a good thing generally speaking. 
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 4761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I am not talking George Moores day, I am talking more 80s and 90s.


Well thank you djebel for being more specific, suppose I could give you another 10 but I don't want to bore you.
Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I am not talking George Moores day, I am talking more 80s and 90s.


Well thank you djebel for being more specific, suppose I could give you another 10 but I don't want to bore you.

Give me another 10, it will not bore me Beer

Apart from McEvoy riding for Godolphin, who was the last jockey to go to Europe or India to ride for Royalty ?




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
Sneck View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2013
Location: Payout Queue
Status: Offline
Points: 6910
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I am not talking George Moores day, I am talking more 80s and 90s.


Well thank you djebel for being more specific, suppose I could give you another 10 but I don't want to bore you.

Give me another 10, it will not bore me Beer

Apart from McEvoy riding for Godolphin, who was the last jockey to go to Europe or India to ride for Royalty ?


They go to Asia now.
Back to Top
scamanda View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: The Manor
Status: Offline
Points: 14700
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scamanda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I am not talking George Moores day, I am talking more 80s and 90s.


Well thank you djebel for being more specific, suppose I could give you another 10 but I don't want to bore you.

Give me another 10, it will not bore me Beer

Apart from McEvoy riding for Godolphin, who was the last jockey to go to Europe or India to ride for Royalty ?



JMac?

I started with nothing and still have most of it left
Back to Top
Carioca View Drop Down
Champion
Champion


Joined: 13 Nov 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 4761
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I am not talking George Moores day, I am talking more 80s and 90s.


Well thank you djebel for being more specific, suppose I could give you another 10 but I don't want to bore you.
Fo

Give me another 10, it will not bore me Beer

Apart from McEvoy riding for Godolphin, who was the last jockey to go to Europe or India to ride for Royalty ?


For Uk royalty the latest ( from reading) would be QLD. jock Russell Maddock
before that both Edgar Britt ,Garny Bougoure, and Billy Cook for KG V1 ,
In India both Britt and Cook for the Maharaja of Baroda, but it's immaterial really,
If you get of your pc one day you may like to read Edgar Britt 's book Post Haste on what he said to the Queen about the whip, it's right up your alley.

Back to Top
djebel View Drop Down
Champion
Champion
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 32788
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Britt Britt wrote:

 

“With a twinkle in her eyes Princess Margaret said ‘if it is naughty, you better give it one,’” Britt wrote. It turned out the whip was redundant that day; the horse behaved impeccably.

Britt won seven classics in England. In his career he rode more than 2000 winners. He is an inductee of the Australian Racing Hall of Fame and in 2004 received the Order of Australia Medal for services to racing.



 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.059 seconds.