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Australia's Whip Rules

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Sneck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 4:44pm
How about a new rule, if you don't hit them as many times as Olivier Placais you're outed for failing to give your mount every possible chance Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 5:37pm
Couple of pearlers here quote=. the use of the whip on 2 yo to make him go faster is totally irrelevant. end of.
Luca Cumani " having no whip is like a plumber going to work without a spanner" how true!
I used a similar phrase a few months back " like a carpenter going to work without a hammer" , got laughted at by a respected poster, ( wot me worry) lol, my take on this, it will never be completely banned, down the shoulder and a back handed manner behind the saddle is what I see,until these jocks stop riding with just their toe in the irons
hands and heel riding will never be, except for R Thompson H Bowman and one or two others, any how who wants to listen I'll shut up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:45pm
You know you're on a real goer when Thompson's legs are windmilling and the whip is enforced with the right hand. PURE JOY.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Couple of pearlers here quote=. the use of the whip on 2 yo to make him go faster is totally irrelevant. end of.
Luca Cumani " having no whip is like a plumber going to work without a spanner" how true!
I used a similar phrase a few months back " like a carpenter going to work without a hammer" , got laughted at by a respected poster, ( wot me worry) lol, my take on this, it will never be completely banned, down the shoulder and a back handed manner behind the saddle is what I see,until these jocks stop riding with just their toe in the irons
hands and heel riding will never be, except for R Thompson H Bowman and one or two others, any how who wants to listen I'll shut up.
Spurs on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 7:04pm
Dummy's, yes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 7:54pm
See the idiot,s girlfriend got done for excessive whip use , the same day he has a brain fade and makes headlines ?
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 8:35pm
Nikita had a winner at W/bool yesterday, I love this post from her Big smile

Nikita Beriman The best ever!!! My beautiful girl. I had to go and massage her bum and beg her to forgive me for smacking her. so proud of her.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 12:44am
Can we have a brexit for the jockey whip change rule ideas? Those to vote in, those to vote out?

I think there would be a majority for keeping the whip.. despite a bunch of trainers publicly saying they want it gone. It's typical that the masses will say what they think is politically correct to say so they don't cop gelati

Put it to a private ballot and see what floats
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 10:10am
Interesting. What "bunch of trainers" are you quoting? Ignoring the fact that "the masses" often get things wrong, it seems to me you're verballing them (whoever they may be) also. 

Steve Moran was obviously looking for some relevance when he wrote his opinion for Racenet. There was nothing new in his comments, nor anything particularly insightful. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Interesting. What "bunch of trainers" are you quoting? Ignoring the fact that "the masses" often get things wrong, it seems to me you're verballing them (whoever they may be) also. 

Steve Moran was obviously looking for some relevance when he wrote his opinion for Racenet. There was nothing new in his comments, nor anything particularly insightful. 


Articles I've read on this topic have a swayed majority vote toward banning... the one guy (from UK) who mentions keeping the whip is totally apologetic and prefaces his opinion by saying.. 'i know people wont like my side of it' 

we are continually having to apologize to others for what we feel.. even if it's not without some merit / reasoning. Should a jockey be penalized for using a whip to win a race or maintain a horse going straight? This is what the world is coming to. 

To try to bring in a NEW rule.. not to allow a backhand on a 2yo? How many rules do we need? Whoever brings up these debates is only pandering to the left. Soon enough the sport will be debated if we ban racing all together. 


Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 7:32pm
I'd suggest that one article which canvases a handful of opinions is hardly reflective of the views of trainers, jockeys, owners, punters or officials in this country. There is no uniformity of opinion among any of those groups from my reading. If anything there seems to be a solid push among the hoi polloi against any further changes to whip rules.  

As with Dutton's hysterical opinion that Xmas has been taken over by politically correct (leftie) school teachers it pays to take little notice of dressmakers with agendas and journalists needing to fill column inches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by troppo75 troppo75 wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Interesting. What "bunch of trainers" are you quoting? Ignoring the fact that "the masses" often get things wrong, it seems to me you're verballing them (whoever they may be) also. 

Steve Moran was obviously looking for some relevance when he wrote his opinion for Racenet. There was nothing new in his comments, nor anything particularly insightful. 


Articles I've read on this topic have a swayed majority vote toward banning... the one guy (from UK) who mentions keeping the whip is totally apologetic and prefaces his opinion by saying.. 'i know people wont like my side of it' 

we are continually having to apologize to others for what we feel.. even if it's not without some merit / reasoning. Should a jockey be penalized for using a whip to win a race or maintain a horse going straight? This is what the world is coming to. 

To try to bring in a NEW rule.. not to allow a backhand on a 2yo? How many rules do we need? Whoever brings up these debates is only pandering to the left. Soon enough the sport will be debated if we ban racing all together. 



Sorry, overlooked these little gems. So you're suggesting that articles written by racing columnists are a conspiracy of the left? You're obviously from the Dutton school of hyperbolic misinformation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by troppo75 troppo75 wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Interesting. What "bunch of trainers" are you quoting? Ignoring the fact that "the masses" often get things wrong, it seems to me you're verballing them (whoever they may be) also. 

Steve Moran was obviously looking for some relevance when he wrote his opinion for Racenet. There was nothing new in his comments, nor anything particularly insightful. 


Articles I've read on this topic have a swayed majority vote toward banning... the one guy (from UK) who mentions keeping the whip is totally apologetic and prefaces his opinion by saying.. 'i know people wont like my side of it' 

we are continually having to apologize to others for what we feel.. even if it's not without some merit / reasoning. Should a jockey be penalized for using a whip to win a race or maintain a horse going straight? This is what the world is coming to. 

To try to bring in a NEW rule.. not to allow a backhand on a 2yo? How many rules do we need? Whoever brings up these debates is only pandering to the left. Soon enough the sport will be debated if we ban racing all together. 



Sorry, overlooked these little gems. So you're suggesting that articles written by racing columnists are a conspiracy of the left? You're obviously from the Dutton school of hyperbolic misinformation. 
Yes.

It's pure virtue signalling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by troppo75 troppo75 wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Interesting. What "bunch of trainers" are you quoting? Ignoring the fact that "the masses" often get things wrong, it seems to me you're verballing them (whoever they may be) also. 

Steve Moran was obviously looking for some relevance when he wrote his opinion for Racenet. There was nothing new in his comments, nor anything particularly insightful. 


Articles I've read on this topic have a swayed majority vote toward banning... the one guy (from UK) who mentions keeping the whip is totally apologetic and prefaces his opinion by saying.. 'i know people wont like my side of it' 

we are continually having to apologize to others for what we feel.. even if it's not without some merit / reasoning. Should a jockey be penalized for using a whip to win a race or maintain a horse going straight? This is what the world is coming to. 

To try to bring in a NEW rule.. not to allow a backhand on a 2yo? How many rules do we need? Whoever brings up these debates is only pandering to the left. Soon enough the sport will be debated if we ban racing all together. 


Tell them you're open to discussion pertaining to further restrictions on the whip once halal and kosher butchering are banned.

I doubt you'll ever have to have the discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:


It's pure virtue signalling.

Your cynicism is on the same line of betting as his leftie conspiracy theory. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2017 at 3:09pm
How many strikes are you allowed past the post?

Kate Walters got at least four in on Brigadier in R5 at Ballarat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 7:24pm
Stakes winner whipped 27 times but no protest by stewards or jockey


Ben Dorries
29/4/17


Leading Brisbane apprentice Tiffani Brooker admitted she totally forgot about the whip rule in an extraordinary aftermath to the Eagle Farm raceday on Saturday.

Brooker was suspended for seven days and fined $2000 after stewards charged her with whipping Group III Gunsynd Classic winner Dreams Aplenty 17 times before the 100m.

Jockey Larry Cassidy, who rode runner-up Violate which went down by a nose, admitted he should have fired in a whip rule protest. 

Stewards also elected not to lodge an objection on behalf of the second placegetter.

Brooker, who scored her first Stakes win, was asked by Reardon whether she had forgotten about the whip rule.

"Yes. I got caught up in the moment," Brooker replied. "I don't have a valid excuse."

Brooker, who pleaded guilty, was told by Reardon her whip use was "way over the top" and she had struck Dreams Aplenty 27 times in total.

"I way, way over-hit it," Brooker said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 7:25pm
Rules are a farce.

Lack of enforcement is going to result in it banned altogether
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 7:31pm
Brooker is a weak whip rider though, even though she used the whip so many times she did not give the horse a beating, they were flicks.

A strong rider like Jim Doyle could ride within the whip rules and the horse would feel it more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2017 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by Sir Gov Sir Gov wrote:

Rules are a farce.

Lack of enforcement is going to result in it banned altogether
Keep the whip, scrap the rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 6:14pm

ATT: Beirne has answer to whip-use uproar

BRAD DAVIDSON, The Sunday Telegraph

FORM guru Dominic Beirne has a formula to take away some of the controversy over the whip rule.

Punters and owners are becoming fed up losing races when the winning jockey breaks the whip rule. Beirne has come up with a proposal to tackle the issue should overuse of the whip be used in a protest hearing.

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The formula is: 0.1 *X/A. ‘X’ being the number of illegal whips and ‘A’ being an apprentice’s allowance (if applicable).

For example: if a senior jockey riding the winner hits the horse six times with the whip before the 100m mark (one more than allowed), it would be 0.1 x 1 = 0.1 lengths. Therefore, if the margin to the second horse was less than 0.1 lengths and a protest was lodged, it should be upheld and the second horse declared the winner.

Dom Beirne has crunched the numbers on a formula for overuse of the whip.

Another example: if a 3kg-claiming apprentice hits the winner 11 times before the 100m (six more than allowed), then it would be 0.1 x 6 divided by 3 = 0.2 lengths. If the margin was less than 0.2 of a length, the second horse should win the race on protest, if lodged.

“In the Australian Rules of Racing, there are many rules quantified by numerical limits. The formula aims to assist stewards to apply this rule with reduced controversy,” Beirne told At The Track. “My formula was created in a blink, but in thinking about it in the past week, I struggle to improve it. By altering the coefficient 0.1, the rule maker can make the protest more or less able to be upheld. The A divisor provides for the weaker whip strength of a claimable apprentice. The A may be governed further by gender and age.”



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 6:22pm
The age of instant gratification has a new member - pseudo analysis and arithmetic "in a blink".

Does he have a formula for calculating the time allowed for connections and stewards to review every race prior to correct weight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 6:35pm
As he himself will admit, that is a different side of the debate.

Once a protest has been lodged their should be a formula for working out when a race will be taken away from an offender. 




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 6:48pm
There is now Djebel, flawed as it is and rarely enforced.

About 9 months ago one of our got done by a small margin and the jockey said we would've won had he been allowed use more vigour prior to the 100m mark.  Kept my counsel but was thinking why the hell didn't he give the gelding the extra couple around the turn when the horse invariably had a flat spot.  Confused

As for Dom's suggestion, I'm with 3BM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 10:54pm
The day a winner is disqualified,under a whip rule indiscretion,is the day many will walk away.

One jockey that has a likeness for yanking would love this.

Your market stolen? Easy to fix.

A huge payout? Action afoot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 10:56pm
Dominic should keep his ALGEBRA away from the punt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by RED HUNTER RED HUNTER wrote:

The day a winner is disqualified,under a whip rule indiscretion,is the day many will walk away.




Nobody would walk away.

People may threaten to walk away but it would be no more than bluffing.

LOL


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 11:24pm
Most corps pay out on protests anyway. Pity the poor TAB punters and owners of horses whose riders observe the rules. 

A formula suggests there is a method and quantifiable relationships involved. To get anything like a real formula would require thousands of case studies of horse speed variation - ie was there evidence that a horse ran faster under the whip prior to the 100m mark. Even then not all horses react the same way to the whip. Some horses undoubtedly give more, some I suspect just take the whip as a reminder to keep going as best they can.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2017 at 11:54pm
Piss of Beirne you spaz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2017 at 5:31am
Wouldn't it be wonderful if a horse of the ilk of WINX ,should it ever be hit way too many times, be disqualified through a whip rule.

Also can't wait for a horse like WINX,at almost unbackable odds, weighs light in a MAJOR RACE.

See what happens in either scenario.
*******************************************************************
Result...the whip would have to be banned to protect punters and restore confidence

and

weighing light.....if you can not win you should never be allowed to lose.....a review of the disqualification rule here.


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