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Australia's Whip Rules

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    Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:06pm
One view. Can't help but agree with him. The administration of the rule has been hit and miss (more miss) with few exceptions. Good to see that it is on the agenda for the national meeting of racing stewards.

Purton praises Hong Kong whip rules after double at Sha Tin

Darryl Sherer - 18 Apr 2016

Zac Purton rode a double at Sha Tin on Saturday but said neither would have won had he been riding to the new Australian whip rules.

Zac Purton rode a double at Sha Tin on Saturday. Photo: Steve Hart

Purton scored aboard Rouge Et Blanc and Washington Heights by a nose and a neck respectively, each under a strong drive from Purton in the home straight.

Purton told the South China Post he feels encouraged to ride winners in Hong Kong.

"In Australia, I'm doubtful whether either of them would have won under the new rules, I really had to get stuck into both of them and they only just won," Purton said.

"At least I'm lucky enough to be riding in a place where I'm encouraged to ride winners - it doesn't seem to be that way back at home currently."

The only whip rule in Hong Kong is that a horse out of contention is not unduly tested, with Rule 99 (2) making reference to taking "all reasonable and permissible measures ... to ensure a horse is given a full opportunity to win or to obtain the best possible placing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:15pm
Zac Purton is showing himself to be as dumb as a brick.

If he had been riding under our rules so would his opposition. 

His argument is just pure dumbness in the extreme.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Zac Purton is showing himself to be as dumb as a brick.

If he had been riding under our rules so would his opposition. 

His argument is just pure dumbness in the extreme.



The problem arises when one jockey is riding to the rules and another is not. Until they start taking races off those breaking the rules there will be problems but can you ever see that happening when it matters? If a horse loses the cup by a nostril and the winning jockey has flogged it all the way down the straight do you think they would change the result? No chance and that is the biggest problem I have with the rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:26pm
Clearly the Stewards do not believe it makes any difference to the result hence they do not or will uphold a protest. Purton is clearly saying it does make a difference.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air Seattle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:37pm
and in Australia Buena Vista would not have lost the Japan Cup.

Different jurisdictions have different outcomes.  The smart thing is to keep quiet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 1:53pm
Stewards aren't the ones riding and very few of them have ridden competitively so they're hardly equipped to judge. They should have had some phasing in period to give breakers and trainers time to change how they educate young horses - as is it's unfair to older horses and their connections as these horses were educated to be wound up with the whip etc versus the younger horses whose education was most likely lighter in the whip in step with new rules.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 10:28am
Jockey Freddie (Frederik) Tylicki

Freddy Tylicki: banned for four days for his German Derby ride

 PICTURE: John Grossick

Big bans and fines for riders breaking whip rule

 BY DAVID CONOLLY-SMITH AND MARK SCULLY2:21PM 5 AUG 2016 

GERMAN racing has adopted stringent new whip rules that will result in hefty fines and long bans for riders who breach the limit of five strikes a race.

The move follows a fierce debate about use of the whip following the German Derby last month, in which the first- and second-placed riders incurred penalties for striking their mounts nine times.

Freddy Tylicki, who placed second, and winning jockey Dario Vargiu both lost 75 per cent of their prize-money share, while Tylicki was hit with a four-day ban.

As of Sunday, a sixth strike will result in a ban of 14 days and a fine of at least 50 per cent of the riding fee. Seven or more strikes will see those penalties increase, while a second offence will incur a minimum 21-day ban and a third 28.

Andrea Atzeni said on Friday the stringent new whip rules are a concern. The jockey is due to head to Dusseldorf this weekend to ride Parvaneh in the Preis der Diana, or German Oaks. Frankie Dettori and Tylicki are also making the journey.

'It's rubbish'

"It's definitely a worry," said Atzeni. "You're riding in a Group 1 and you only have five smacks.

"Fair enough, punish someone if they go over the limit but to give them two weeks and lose 50 per cent or more, I think it's rubbish really."

Atzeni said he did not believe the rule change would result in jockeys opting against riding in Germany, but said he would play it extra safe on Sunday to ensure he is free to continue riding when he returns to Britain.

"When you get a ride in a Group 1, a big race like the Oaks on Sunday, you have to go and you just have to make sure you don't go over the limit," he said.

"I'd probably rather give my horse four on Sunday, not even five, just to be safe."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradjm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 10:34am
I think i'll take an accomplished rider like zacs word for it over the keyboard jockeys.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 10:38am
Touche.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2016 at 10:40am
Originally posted by bradjm bradjm wrote:

I think i'll take an accomplished rider like zacs word for it over the keyboard jockeys.


His explanation was about as dumb as it gets whether you have ridden a horse or not, It was just dumb.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2017 at 6:59pm

OPINION: Steve Moran – Whip ban inevitable

Steve Moran - 02 Jan 2017

In my opinion it's only a matter of time until whips are banned from Australian horse racing so it's time jockeys, trainers and punters began to prepare themselves for the inevitable.

Racing without whips - is it inevitable? Photo: Steve Hart

THE SITUATION

I love a punt and I love to see a jockey doing their utmost to win.

I have no torch to carry for the extremists in the animal welfare world. At least until they adjourn and solve the ethical, intellectual and philosophical debate of mankind's treatment of animals.

But I am a realist.

Community attitudes and perceptions change and attitudes toward the use of the whip in horse racing have been changing for quite some time.

So, Racing Australia bites the bullet and bans whip use in Australian horse racing – what changes?

THE PUNTER

You won't bet, you say. Bollocks.

You'll still bet because you, like me, and every other punter thinks we're smarter than the next bloke.

It's the very essence of why we bet in the first place - because we reckon our opinion is more on the money than most others.

We'll stand at the pub or the track for a few weeks, lamenting that so and so would have won with a decent backhander but then, a little further on, we won't even notice it's (the whip) not there.

THE TRENDS

These days, more often than not with most of the top jockeys, I find myself willing them not to draw the whip.

Because I know if they do, they've reached desperation point and the horse and my cash is probably 'gone'.

Look at Damien Oliver or Hugh Bowman arched over the horse's neck, weight forward, pushing down and riding with tremendous hands and heels vigour over the final stages of a race.

Watch Kerrin McEvoy and Joao Moreira over the last 100 metres of this year's Melbourne Cup.

No whip.

It looks great.

There are also some cases where it can be entirely counter-productive.

I suspect that had Katie Mallyon continued to ride Grey Lion hands and heels, rather than try to draw the whip through to her left hand, she'd have won the Geelong Cup.

I'm not having a go at Mallyon who is an extremely competent young rider, it's just a recent example which springs to mind.

THE JOCKEY

Glen Boss wrote in his book The Boss – "I hate bashing horses because they just curl up underneath you anyway. When they are at their top doing their level best, don't hit them….the notion that wielding the whip produces speed is just crazy."

Boss also conceded that a 'tap or two' in the straight might encourage the horse to keep its mind on the job and noted that some horses would respond to strong whip use. "But not many,' he wrote.

Mark Zahra – "A ban would concern me. I think we do need the whip for track work as well in races.

"It's a tool to assist in educating and controlling the horse and the safety argument is real in my opinion.

"I really couldn't imagine not using it. There's plenty of willing young colts who'll just have a lend of you if allowed half a chance."

Mick Dittman – "It's (the whip) not really a good look at the moment, and we need to help the jockeys improve their techniques with regard to getting the best out of horses using other ways," said Dittman back in 2009.

THE TRAINER

Mick Kent – "The jockeys will say it's a safety issue but that's nonsense.

"And in terms of performance, it's all about the jockeys relaying that sense of urgency to the horse.

"The whip may be an aid in conveying that urgency but horses are trained to respond to other triggers, like crossing the reins over."

THE BREAKER

Julien Welsh – "I appreciate some may have a different view but for me, banning the whip would make not one iota of difference.

"I don't use the whip at all in training or breaking. We carry them so that the horses get used to them but we don't use them.

"In my opinion the vast majority of horses give their best without it.

"Look, a ban or no ban, it wouldn't worry me either way. I accept that the whips today don't inflict pain but we have to be mindful of public perception and whether we like it or not, public opinion has an impact on decision making."

A SAFETY TOOL

Is the whip a necessary safety tool?

I am simply not qualified to speak on this as someone who's not ridden in a race.

However, I can say that when I have privately asked jockeys about this matter they have invariably said 'over rated.'

Publicly, they might say something altogether different but I suspect that's because they either don't want to be seen to be breaking ranks or they're simply resisting change which is what people are inclined to do.

If safety is a legitimate issue, then let them carry a whip - in some sort of sheath - which can be drawn in dangerous situations but not as a tool to encourage.

WHAT NOW

The whip debate has raged since 1966 when Wally Hoysted walked onto the Flemington racetrack armed with a double barrelled shotgun and threatened to use it if the jockeys rode with whips in the upcoming race.

It's meandered along ever since and the tough decision has been avoided despite various reports advocating a ban, including a 1991 Senate Select Committee report which concluded "the Committee would like to see the use of whips as a means of making a horse run faster eliminated from horse racing".

Various changes to the whip rules since 2009 are simply unworkable and will continue to be so despite the changes which will allow stewards some discretion.

As of January 1, stewards are able to take into consideration the circumstances of a race, such as the distance and whether a jockey was using the whip to encourage the horse to improve its position.

Counting strikes, good heavens!

If a ban were imposed, we'd need to respond rationally.

Would the odd race result be affected?

Probably yes, but in line with Boss's thinking, probably not many.

A few owners and trainers might complain that a certain horse can't be competitive without the whip.

To which I'd respond, that's just another vagary of racing.

Your horse is not competitive when he's caught inside horses or when the tracks are too firm or too soft.

Perhaps methods of training and educating young horses will gradually change but even then I doubt it would have to be radical, especially in light of Julien Welsh's comments.

Horses have to get a barrier certificate as it is.

The rogues won't and don't pass.

CONCLUSION

I suspect we have now reached the stage where the safety of the rider is the only genuinely, critical issue.

If jockeys cannot absolutely convince the authorities, and perhaps the public, that this is the case then a blanket whip ban is inevitable.

Australian racing without whips – now there's something for all participants to consider as we dive into the new year.

* Steve Moran has covered racing in Australia and around the world for more than 30 years - working for Best Bets, TVN, radio RSN and a variety of newspapers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majestic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 8:01am
If we can agree that a whip ban is inevitable, where to start? iMO an ammediate blanket ban could bring difficulties with it. Old horses used to the enforcer could "dog" it. My suggestion is from August 1 2017, 2yo racing is to be whipless and those horses will progress to their 3yo career whipless. Also from August 1 2017, all maiden races and restricted races (Class 1-3) could be declared whipless.
Total whip ban from August 1 2018. This should give the RACING industry enough time to swallow this "bitter" pill. Just imagine racing stewards visiting stables unannounced looking for illegal "assessories". What about spurs and some of those lovely bits that are used on the horses?
BUT, what about pony club, eventing, dressage, droving 🤔😱😳😖, etc etc.?.
The next couple of years will be interesting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 8:20am
Can't happen till the world goes whipless, if you couldn't whip the horse here but you can overseas would never get horses coming here to race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 8:22am
I have been thinking along the same lines Majestic - if the ban comes in it will need to be phased in over sufficient time not to prejudice horses (and their owners/trainers) that have been taught to respond to the whip as a trigger. I thought that the necessary lead time would be one that changed the way horses were broken in, although the comments from the Steve Moran article above are interesting. And I would suggest a longer phase in period than one year.

An interesting corollary from the whip ban may be that it levels the playing field, or indeed the playing field of perception, between male and female jockeys. The old chestnut that male jockeys are stronger than their female counterparts in a tight finish may lose relevance, while the belief in some quarters that some horses travel better for female riders may gain traction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 8:29am
It's going to happen. Just a matter of when.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 8:41am
Jockeys are about the fittest sportspeople out there.  They come back to scale breathless on many occasions after pushing their rides to the line.  So without the whips they will truely be spent.  They are asking a 400 - 500 - 600 horse to give their all - and most of them are only around the 54 mark.

Now will the breed have to change if we go whipless.  

One of my daughters had a modern age teacher one year who let the children progress at their own rate.  My daughter being of a retiring nature didn't push herself too hard - in fact probably learnt nothing and spent the rest of her life trying to catch up!

So the horses needing a strong ride and encouragement to win - or even be competitave - will certainly no longer earn anything for his sire or owners.  He'll gallop along happily in the pack but never exercise anything more in a race.

So racing will change, breeding will have to change also.

It won't change the ability of Champions like Black Caviar who wanted to win at all costs.  The times may go down abit if they don't have anything trying to beat them thought.  But what about the Octagonals of the world who only just made it with heavy riding to the line.  Will they loose that head which is the difference between them winning and loosing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 8:51am
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Jockeys are about the fittest sportspeople out there.  They come back to scale breathless on many occasions after pushing their rides to the line.  So without the whips they will truely be spent.  They are asking a 400 - 500 - 600 horse to give their all - and most of them are only around the 54 mark.

Now will the breed have to change if we go whipless.  

One of my daughters had a modern age teacher one year who let the children progress at their own rate.  My daughter being of a retiring nature didn't push herself too hard - in fact probably learnt nothing and spent the rest of her life trying to catch up!

So the horses needing a strong ride and encouragement to win - or even be competitave - will certainly no longer earn anything for his sire or owners.  He'll gallop along happily in the pack but never exercise anything more in a race.

So racing will change, breeding will have to change also.

It won't change the ability of Champions like Black Caviar who wanted to win at all costs.  The times may go down abit if they don't have anything trying to beat them thought.  But what about the Octagonals of the world who only just made it with heavy riding to the line.  Will they loose that head which is the difference between them winning and loosing.

If they don't win you will just have another champion that can win under the new rules. I know what you are saying but it is going to happen and trainers and jockeys will adjust or they will not. Some will fall by the wayside and others will excel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Majestic Majestic wrote:

If we can agree that a whip ban is inevitable, where to start? iMO an ammediate blanket ban could bring difficulties with it. Old horses used to the enforcer could "dog" it. My suggestion is from August 1 2017, 2yo racing is to be whipless and those horses will progress to their 3yo career whipless. Also from August 1 2017, all maiden races and restricted races (Class 1-3) could be declared whipless.
Total whip ban from August 1 2018. This should give the RACING industry enough time to swallow this "bitter" pill. Just imagine racing stewards visiting stables unannounced looking for illegal "assessories". What about spurs and some of those lovely bits that are used on the horses?
BUT, what about pony club, eventing, dressage, droving 🤔😱😳😖, etc etc.?.
The next couple of years will be interesting.

Animal activists don't bother with those. No money in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote marble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 10:44am
I see it as a positive for the industry but the animal rights campaigners will shift their focus to death rates, retirement and rehoming issues. The industry needs continual improvement in these areas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 12:17pm
Looking for an unrelated story about ANDREW BANKS and found this SHOCKER...NOV 2015

quote

A jockey at Rosehill was found to have struck a horse 40 times during the course of a race on the same day state-based riding groups met with hoops around the country to rail against a new rule that will tighten whip laws.

Andrew Banks was fined $300 for excessive use of the whip on Mandalong Kiss in the eighth event at Rosehill, which came just an hour before riders at Rosehill held a conference about the impending whip changes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 2:59pm
Racing Australia have just announced they are leaving the whip rule as is for the next 12 months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Majestic Majestic wrote:


If we can agree that a whip ban is inevitable, where to start? iMO an ammediate blanket ban could bring difficulties with it. Old horses used to the enforcer could "dog" it. My suggestion is from August 1 2017, 2yo racing is to be whipless and those horses will progress to their 3yo career whipless. Also from August 1 2017, all maiden races and restricted races (Class 1-3) could be declared whipless.


One problem with this would be when these 2yos take on their elders and or when these 2yos turn 3 and start taking on their elders who are still racing with the persuader in use.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 3:55pm
Just ban the bloody thing .... just like those trendsetting harness participants have ! Talk about having to be dragged through the mud screaming....deary me !
I've only backed one certainty in my life....& it lost !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:31pm

OPINION : Steve Moran - The Whip Debate - Global Reaction

Steve Moran - 16 Jan 2017

Having considered the Racenet responses and after speaking to trainers from around the world, I am now inclined to think that changes to the whip rules rather than a ban is inevitable, at least in the short term.

How many is too many? Steve Moran follows up on his controversial article which suggested a whip ban was inevitable.

The response to last week's hypothesis that a whip ban is inevitable was extraordinary from both our readers and from industry participants around the globe.

It's clear that this issue evokes very strong responses from both sides of the fence and is certainly not restricted to this county.

One of the most prominent trainers in the world supports banning the whip whilst others agree it's a necessary tool.

Their views, and those of other locals, are well worth considering.

MIKE DE KOCK

Champion South African trainer and the man who put the Dubai World Cup carnival on the international map.

"I am in the camp of banning the whip.

"It will bring back good old fashion horsemanship. I cringe watching finishes in South Africa sometimes as a head on view will show you exactly what Glen Boss meant (in last week's article).

"What about starting with a ban on using the whip behind the saddle?

"Only allow a tap down the shoulder.

"I firmly believe many punters would be more comfortable with horses not been beaten up just to satisfy them that the jockey 'tried'."

KARL BURKE

Trainer of this year's Royal Ascot Group I Commonwealth Cup winner Quiet Reflection.

"The whip issue has been going on over here for years and there is no doubt that the anti-whip brigade is powerful and not to be underestimated.

I think the BHA have done well with the new rules they have brought in and while there was a lot of controversy in the press a few years ago that has very much died down.

"We have a 7 strikes limit, but it is rare now that jockeys exceed this and when they do the bans are severe.

"My opinion is that while I think there is a place for the whip in racing and the schooling of horses, I totally agree that it was over-used and abused by some and that in the media friendly world we live in, we have to be accountable for our actions, both personally and as a racing industry.

"I think the comments made by your jockeys were on the ball when they said that horses don't quicken for the stick, but at the same time it will help keep them going

and the whip used correctly is a good training tool.

"A big problem that you have is jockeys style in a finish, and a change from the windmill action is a must.

"That will all take time and should be implemented in your apprentice schools, so that the next generation are brought into racing with a different mindset."

MARK JOHNSTON

Long been one of Britain's leading trainers and also a licensed veterinarian based in Yorkshire in northern England.

"Yes, it could happen (whip ban) in the UK. We have exactly the same issues.

"I have written about the whip many times but try to avoid doing so. I don't like to be the one that raises the issue as every time we get into discussions on it the wedge is driven a little further in.

"I do have strong opinions on the subject and I try to go into detail on the physiology involved and approach the subject from, as near as possible, a scientific basis.

"Unfortunately, my views are invariably swamped by those of the uninformed majority and, sadly, our administrators are, to date, putting public perception of horse welfare well ahead of horse welfare itself.

"I note in your piece (last week) that you start by trying to consider how a whip ban will affect the punter, the jockeys and the trainers but you don't really consider how it will affect the horses.

"I take it you are assuming that the horses will be better off but I don't agree that that is the case.

"As a trainer, I wouldn't be affected in that we would all still be competing under the same rules and conditions.

"I wouldn't win any more or any less races but I am still very strongly in favour of the retention of the whip as I believe it to be an essential tool for the proper riding and handling of a horse, especially a racehorse at full gallop.

"As Luca Cumani says, 'a jockey without a whip is like a plumber without a spanner'.

"I think it is essential instrument for the safety and welfare of the horse but not in the sense that most consider it. It is not something 'to be drawn in a dangerous situation'. The reins are for steering.

"The whip cannot make the horse go any faster than it is inherently capable of. It just makes it pull out its best when it matters.

"I have often likened the use of the whip by a jockey to the second in the corner with his boxer before the last round giving his man a slap on the cheek and saying 'come on, wake up, keep your chin in and look after yourself'.

"I would hate to see my horses racing without it."

PAT CAREY

Victorian Group I-winning trainer.

"If we are staring down the barrel of a ban then I believe modification is absolutely 100 percent necessary.

"It may well bring out better qualities in our riders.

"I don't think I've ever seen the best horse lose a race through the lack of use of the whip.

"We need to be balanced and measured in our handling of this issue.''

ROBBIE GRIFFITHS

Group I-winning trainer, former jockey and president Victorian branch of the Australia Trainers Association.

"I'm comfortable with our whip rules as they stand, especially after the recent changes. The key point, often overlooked, is that a horse who is feeling pain will run slower not faster so therefore much of the public perception is simply wrong.

"The whip will encourage, remind or stimulate. The new padded whip is very soft. It's there to make the horse concentrate, not to inflict pain. Horses are not punished as they might have been many years ago.

"Taking it away would be fraught with danger from an OH&S point of view as jockeys are entitled to as safe a workplace as possible. I think it's reasonable to think they need one to perhaps stop a horse darting left or right or whipping right around."

POSSIBLE SOLUTION

The whip may be carried - to be used forward of the saddle, slap down the shoulder with both hands on reins - or waved at the horse forward with the hand coming off the rein, but never used behind the saddle.

STEP ONE

Announce, commencing 1 Aug 2017, that whips are allowed to be carried but not used behind the saddle in all two-year-old races in Australia.

Jockeys are permitted to carry whips for control and education but not to be used behind the saddle.

If a breach of this occurs, horse is or may be disqualified. Onus squarely with riders.

This may promote numerous positives.

Most two-year-olds, if not all, run on a mix of fear, adrenalin and natural running ability.

The use of a whip to make them go faster is almost totally irrelevant.

Thus banning whip use on juveniles is a great start to change perceptions.

Jockeys will also re-learn how to ride hands and heels, maybe even drop their irons to facilitate this and even increase their own safety by not using the toe in the iron (dependent on the whip as you can't kick), modern riding style.

Another plus is educating our young horses to "find the line" free of pain and a bad experience.

We may see even see less of the stallion farm driven emphasis placed on two-year-old racing which may, in turn, have fewer high class horses rushed to stud and thus potentially reinvigorate the racing competition among our older horses (which is also being diminished by the sale of promising horses to Asia).

STEP TWO

Announce, commencing 1 Aug 2018, that all two-year-old and three-year-old racing will adopt this rule. So all the two-year-olds of the previous season are now three continue on with the whip ban and maintain the ban on new season two-year-olds.

STEP THREE

Announce, commencing 1 Aug 2019, a ban on the whip being used (it may be carried), in all races in Australia.

By this stage, horses, jockeys, punters and everyone else will be educated and conditioned to the non-usage of the whip behind the saddle.

Riders will be better riders, horses will be better educated.

Racegoers, punters and the casual observer will have by then become au fait with a new style of going to the line.

No counting of strikes, no more fines, no more negativity.

OUTCOME

Racing has controlled its future, established a new era for the benefit of the animal, and we can all settle down with a cup of tea and marvel at how this "problem" became solved.

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Zac Purton is showing himself to be as dumb as a brick.

If he had been riding under our rules so would his opposition. 

His argument is just pure dumbness in the extreme.


You're totally wrong about this.

The lack of adequate whip use has cost so many horses a win I've lost count.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

OPINION : Steve Moran - The Whip Debate - Global Reaction

Steve Moran - 16 Jan 2017

Having considered the Racenet responses and after speaking to trainers from around the world, I am now inclined to think that changes to the whip rules rather than a ban is inevitable, at least in the short term.

How many is too many? Steve Moran follows up on his controversial article which suggested a whip ban was inevitable.

The response to last week's hypothesis that a whip ban is inevitable was extraordinary from both our readers and from industry participants around the globe.

It's clear that this issue evokes very strong responses from both sides of the fence and is certainly not restricted to this county.

One of the most prominent trainers in the world supports banning the whip whilst others agree it's a necessary tool.

Their views, and those of other locals, are well worth considering.

MIKE DE KOCK

Champion South African trainer and the man who put the Dubai World Cup carnival on the international map.

"I am in the camp of banning the whip.

"It will bring back good old fashion horsemanship. I cringe watching finishes in South Africa sometimes as a head on view will show you exactly what Glen Boss meant (in last week's article).

"What about starting with a ban on using the whip behind the saddle?

"Only allow a tap down the shoulder.

"I firmly believe many punters would be more comfortable with horses not been beaten up just to satisfy them that the jockey 'tried'."

KARL BURKE

Trainer of this year's Royal Ascot Group I Commonwealth Cup winner Quiet Reflection.

"The whip issue has been going on over here for years and there is no doubt that the anti-whip brigade is powerful and not to be underestimated.

I think the BHA have done well with the new rules they have brought in and while there was a lot of controversy in the press a few years ago that has very much died down.

"We have a 7 strikes limit, but it is rare now that jockeys exceed this and when they do the bans are severe.

"My opinion is that while I think there is a place for the whip in racing and the schooling of horses, I totally agree that it was over-used and abused by some and that in the media friendly world we live in, we have to be accountable for our actions, both personally and as a racing industry.

"I think the comments made by your jockeys were on the ball when they said that horses don't quicken for the stick, but at the same time it will help keep them going

and the whip used correctly is a good training tool.

"A big problem that you have is jockeys style in a finish, and a change from the windmill action is a must.

"That will all take time and should be implemented in your apprentice schools, so that the next generation are brought into racing with a different mindset."

MARK JOHNSTON

Long been one of Britain's leading trainers and also a licensed veterinarian based in Yorkshire in northern England.

"Yes, it could happen (whip ban) in the UK. We have exactly the same issues.

"I have written about the whip many times but try to avoid doing so. I don't like to be the one that raises the issue as every time we get into discussions on it the wedge is driven a little further in.

"I do have strong opinions on the subject and I try to go into detail on the physiology involved and approach the subject from, as near as possible, a scientific basis.

"Unfortunately, my views are invariably swamped by those of the uninformed majority and, sadly, our administrators are, to date, putting public perception of horse welfare well ahead of horse welfare itself.

"I note in your piece (last week) that you start by trying to consider how a whip ban will affect the punter, the jockeys and the trainers but you don't really consider how it will affect the horses.

"I take it you are assuming that the horses will be better off but I don't agree that that is the case.

"As a trainer, I wouldn't be affected in that we would all still be competing under the same rules and conditions.

"I wouldn't win any more or any less races but I am still very strongly in favour of the retention of the whip as I believe it to be an essential tool for the proper riding and handling of a horse, especially a racehorse at full gallop.

"As Luca Cumani says, 'a jockey without a whip is like a plumber without a spanner'.

"I think it is essential instrument for the safety and welfare of the horse but not in the sense that most consider it. It is not something 'to be drawn in a dangerous situation'. The reins are for steering.

"The whip cannot make the horse go any faster than it is inherently capable of. It just makes it pull out its best when it matters.

"I have often likened the use of the whip by a jockey to the second in the corner with his boxer before the last round giving his man a slap on the cheek and saying 'come on, wake up, keep your chin in and look after yourself'.

"I would hate to see my horses racing without it."

PAT CAREY

Victorian Group I-winning trainer.

"If we are staring down the barrel of a ban then I believe modification is absolutely 100 percent necessary.

"It may well bring out better qualities in our riders.

"I don't think I've ever seen the best horse lose a race through the lack of use of the whip.

"We need to be balanced and measured in our handling of this issue.''

ROBBIE GRIFFITHS

Group I-winning trainer, former jockey and president Victorian branch of the Australia Trainers Association.

"I'm comfortable with our whip rules as they stand, especially after the recent changes. The key point, often overlooked, is that a horse who is feeling pain will run slower not faster so therefore much of the public perception is simply wrong.

"The whip will encourage, remind or stimulate. The new padded whip is very soft. It's there to make the horse concentrate, not to inflict pain. Horses are not punished as they might have been many years ago.

"Taking it away would be fraught with danger from an OH&S point of view as jockeys are entitled to as safe a workplace as possible. I think it's reasonable to think they need one to perhaps stop a horse darting left or right or whipping right around."

POSSIBLE SOLUTION

The whip may be carried - to be used forward of the saddle, slap down the shoulder with both hands on reins - or waved at the horse forward with the hand coming off the rein, but never used behind the saddle.

STEP ONE

Announce, commencing 1 Aug 2017, that whips are allowed to be carried but not used behind the saddle in all two-year-old races in Australia.

Jockeys are permitted to carry whips for control and education but not to be used behind the saddle.

If a breach of this occurs, horse is or may be disqualified. Onus squarely with riders.

This may promote numerous positives.

Most two-year-olds, if not all, run on a mix of fear, adrenalin and natural running ability.

The use of a whip to make them go faster is almost totally irrelevant.

Thus banning whip use on juveniles is a great start to change perceptions.

Jockeys will also re-learn how to ride hands and heels, maybe even drop their irons to facilitate this and even increase their own safety by not using the toe in the iron (dependent on the whip as you can't kick), modern riding style.

Another plus is educating our young horses to "find the line" free of pain and a bad experience.

We may see even see less of the stallion farm driven emphasis placed on two-year-old racing which may, in turn, have fewer high class horses rushed to stud and thus potentially reinvigorate the racing competition among our older horses (which is also being diminished by the sale of promising horses to Asia).

STEP TWO

Announce, commencing 1 Aug 2018, that all two-year-old and three-year-old racing will adopt this rule. So all the two-year-olds of the previous season are now three continue on with the whip ban and maintain the ban on new season two-year-olds.

STEP THREE

Announce, commencing 1 Aug 2019, a ban on the whip being used (it may be carried), in all races in Australia.

By this stage, horses, jockeys, punters and everyone else will be educated and conditioned to the non-usage of the whip behind the saddle.

Riders will be better riders, horses will be better educated.

Racegoers, punters and the casual observer will have by then become au fait with a new style of going to the line.

No counting of strikes, no more fines, no more negativity.

OUTCOME

Racing has controlled its future, established a new era for the benefit of the animal, and we can all settle down with a cup of tea and marvel at how this "problem" became solved.

How about no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:39pm
Pat Carey seems to differ.

Originally posted by <strong style=font-family: verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px; line-height: 17.92px;>PAT CAREY</strong> PAT CAREY wrote:

 

Victorian Group I-winning trainer.

"If we are staring down the barrel of a ban then I believe modification is absolutely 100 percent necessary.

"It may well bring out better qualities in our riders.

"I don't think I've ever seen the best horse lose a race through the lack of use of the whip.

"We need to be balanced and measured in our handling of this issue.''


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED HUNTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:39pm
If a breach of this occurs, horse is or may be disqualified

NO NO NO...disqualify the jock not the punter and disqualify the jock for 3 months at least...DONT LET IT FALL on the PUNTER,GOOSE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Pat Carey seems to differ.

Originally posted by <strong style=font-family: verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px; line-height: 17.92px;>PAT CAREY PAT CAREY wrote:

 

Victorian Group I-winning trainer.

"If we are staring down the barrel of a ban then I believe modification is absolutely 100 percent necessary.

"It may well bring out better qualities in our riders.

"I don't think I've ever seen the best horse lose a race through the lack of use of the whip.

"We need to be balanced and measured in our handling of this issue.''


He's wrong, and that is a laughable statement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 3:42pm
progress for the sake of progress Sleepy
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