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ARTIE SCHILLER & HUSSONET

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willy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2007 at 1:55am
Originally posted by Bagman Bagman wrote:

Aren't the Snippets' mud larks? I thought the Lunchtime line loved the wet. Maybe you know something different Willy...

Rubbish. The majority of Lunchtimes Sons progeny perform on all surfaces and their winners to runners ratio on fast and good tracks is superior to slow and heavy.
Track Condition Stats for Snippets
             Fast            126    22    18    14    
             Good           3432   509   432   382    
             Dead            721   100   106    62    
             Slow            364    52    40    50    
             Heavy           276    35    31    41    
             Sand              0     0     0     0   0.0   
             Total          4919   718   627   549 14.6

Whilst that's not vastly superior,other sire sons like Integra have a 2 for 60 record for starters on Heavy. Hardly a love of the wet....

Source http://www.virtualformguide.com/stallions.shtml
 
Thanks for that BAGMAN.
 
Correct .. good on most tracks depending on their damsides and how they have "thrown".
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Bagman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bagman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2007 at 3:29pm
Theres a BIG difference between all round quality and sweeping 'mud lark' statements. Or is Lunchtime/Snippets the only sire represented in those matings?
Anyways requested the great mud lark Danehill.....
Track Condition Stats
             Fast             64     4     4     7   6.3
             Good           3847   555   471   394 14.4
             Dead            960   146   110   104 15.2
             Slow            379    48    40    38 12.7
             Heavy           204    21    26    26 10.3
             Sand              0     0     0     0   0.0   
             Total          5454   774   651   569 14.2
I don't have one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 4:51pm

Colin

You conveniently missed my point. Husson Lightning is a horse of Gr1 quality from a family that isn't. Sure as a damsire Snippets contributes but has only roughly half the influence of Husson Lightning's sire. It's early days to make a judgement I agree but that also means it's early days to write him off as not capable of upgrading his mares.

Ekraar will leave a variety of aptitudinal types based on his foals and I have seen more than most. He's a very different type to Hussonet but then so was Fairway to Pharos and Fairy King to SW. He may not enjoy a "Postponed-like" start but he will make his presence felt before a few expect him too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 7:12pm
PETER .. good luck with EKRAAR.
 
You are overdue for a good one.
 
Also .. congratulations to DAVID BENJAMIN on his selection of POSTPONED into NZ. I just hope that his stock continue as they have started because NZ is desperately short of Australasian quality stallions.
 
Fortunately .. the introduction of AI will solve that.Clap
 
Furthermore .. one early performing 2yo does little to convince me that a new stallion might be one thing or the other.
 
HUSSONET will be nothing like he was in CHILE. The cracks will show in them as late 2 .. and definitely 3. That is my prediction .. and I'm confident.Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

PETER .. good luck with EKRAAR.
 
You are overdue for a good one.
 
Also .. congratulations to DAVID BENJAMIN on his selection of POSTPONED into NZ. I just hope that his stock continue as they have started because NZ is desperately short of Australasian quality stallions.
 
Colin
 
As usual you are the bearer of mis-information. I selected Postponed for purchase by Michael Tololi and Gary Hackett. David Benjamin was then invited to stand the horse and take a share in his ownership which I'm glad to say he did. Your credibility takes yet another blow.
 
Can you explain why "we I am overdue for a good one" ? Would have thought Postponed might have satisfied you on that one. BTW our other 6 stallions are yet to have runners down here yet. hard to have SWs without runners, but I guess you overlooked that little sticking point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 8:37pm
PETER .. great to see you taking the credit on this stallion who was shown at his best just prior to Xmas. I have noted at times that when things don't seem to be so favourable for your stud that it was MIKE's choice and not yours.LOL
 
Oh well .. I guess we will have to take your word for it.
 
Anyway .. please pass on my regards to DAVID BENJAMIN for a job well done in those first couple of years.
 
Now while we are at it old son .. I actually think that POSTPONED won't measure up much in AUSTRALIA because already we have seen his best one NATURO breaking down .. and his November GUINEAS winner seems to have gone off the boil.
 
Is that partial dirt blood getting to them on the summer tracks .. or should we put it down to just a bit of bad luck??
 
WILLY.
 
p.s. Please tell us about all of the other "great" stallions you were instrumental into bringing into NZ over your many years in this industry.


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 7:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

PETER .. great to see you taking the credit on this stallion who was shown at his best just prior to Xmas. I have noted at times that when things don't seem to be so favourable for your stud that it was MIKE's choice and not yours.LOL
 WILLY.
 
p.s. Please tell us about all of the other "great" stallions you were instrumental into bringing into NZ over your many years in this industry.
 
I never once said I was responsible for bringing any "great" stallions into NZ. That's you putting words in my mouth. The first stallion I selected for a client was Victory Dance. He finished runner-up on the NZ Sires Premiership one year, has left a Gr1 winner and never stood for more than $4500. Hardly a failure.
 
The next stallion I selected was Chief Bearhart, sire of NZ Filly of the Year Shikoba. The one after that was Postponed. I'm proud of those horses. Which stallions are you proud you put your reputation behind ??? I'm not holding my breath.


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 7:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Champ! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 10:28pm
Fair question from Peter Jenkins there old Willy.
 
Tell us all about the stallions you've either imported or secured locally for stallion duties...I'd like to pass judgement.
 
I presume Peter Jenkins is a reputable fellow and I admire those who have a go. Furthermore it appears he has enjoyed success.
 


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 7:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2007 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

Yes PETER. Thank-you for confirming your very moderate performance in stallion selection for this region .. and one very limited to VICTORY DANCE who sent the poor stallionmaster broke. CHIEF BEARHEART likewise, if I recall it correctly.

And .. what happened to SIR ARTHUR? I've got one of his treadmills here.

And DAVID BENJAMIN .. sure .. he must've made a fortune out of POSTPONED as well.

The thing is PETER ..

.. it never pays to wade into a debate when you haven't got the ammo to back it up.

And yes .. I can recall mentioning some racehorse raced by the owners of the stud you "contract" for which had the most unlikely pedigree for this region .. and when mentioned to you .. assuming you were their socalled "bloodstock advisor" ..  you stated that you had nothing to do with it.

Anyhow ..

.. the latest I've heard is that you are bringing some camel in by ROYAL ACADEMY. Is it true?

Whatever happened to people I have worked for long after I left is nothing to do with me. Again you are trying to fling s**t where it can't stick. Anyone who knows the NZ industry inside out is well aware of how far off the mark you are regarding Brett Jenkins and Craig Ivil.
 
Arthur Williams - lets see. i was there for 8 months and he sold up 9 years later but somehow I'm responsible for this sad man's demise. Hey I also sank the Rainbow Warrior and was involved in the Kennedy plot ! Never got him a stallion either.
 
Ammo - what a joke. I'm a doer. You're a wannabee. Simple really.
 
I also challenge you to call David Benjamin this afternoon and ask him yourself if he's pleased with the return he's getting from Postponed. Please report back when you have done so. If you need his number then email me and I will provide it. He was only telling me at a BBQ 4 days ago how thrilled he was to be involved with the horse. Failure to come back with a truthful answer on this one will brand you as a liar for the umpteenth time.
 
And lastly a completely empty allegation. No names of people, studs, horses. Funny how your memory is so bad when it's convenient. If that's what i said then it's the truth. If you are implying that I haven't told the truth then you should produce evidence. Michael Tololi and any other clients for that matter still buy horses without consulting me and that's their prerogative. I don't claim credit for those I'm not involved with nor DO I claim credit for those I'm not. I called you a liar in the last post and until you can produce something other than empty allegations you remain a liar.
 
If we do have a new stallion I can't wait for you to bag him because according to many I have spoken with in the industry in the past few months the moment you criticise a horse they are convinced it's worth a crack.
 
We are still waiting for the list of successful stallions you have put your name and career behind or are you really just a wannabee ?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 1:37am
PETER JENKINS ..
 
Of the stallion line up at STONEY BRIDGE .. I have a modest regard for EKRAAR which will struggle at a commercial level and the smaller breeders will get the 'bash' ..
 
.. while I believe that POSTPONED was at a career best just prior to XMAS and will end up not much better than a bread & butter sire that will struggle under AUSTRALIAN conditions.
 
STORM CREEK left vermon looking things at the yearling sales .. and his staff live in fear of this bad natured son of STORM CAT ..
 
.. while STORMING HOME is a N/H hand me down who is no longer supported by his owners.
 
But add to that the news that you've got a son of ROYAL ACADEMY coming to NZ .. this does not surprise me at all. He is an appreciable downgrader.
 
Oh .. and I forgot MR NACHO which is entirely unsuited to this region .. and the slomo HAWKEYE who is most unlike his old man HAWKEYE.
 
ST REIMS is a chance but I doubt you had much input there.
 
And yes .. I confirm that a racehorse of MIKE's was advised by you to be his choice and that you had no input. And no .. I don't have the time or inclination to find that internet cop-out of yours.
 
 


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 8:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Agatha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 2:57am
I've been watching for some time and you seem to have an opinion on everything, which is fine, but you are so emphatic about everything and I think you need to show cause why this is the case. If you breed a couple of stakes horses in New Zealand, so what, if you sell a few for profit overseas, big deal, you are not on your pat malone there sunshine.

I asked you specifically about stallions. Have you ever stood stallions, have you worked on a farm with stallions?, have you ever imported a stallion and invested your own hard earned.

These are simple questions

I'm not asking to be smart, I just want an answer, because I think for you to carry on in such dogmatic fashion, and to character assasinate those brave enough to do so is pretty piss poor in my book (pardon my french)

So please Willy, no more ducking and diving, can you provide a straight answer to these simple questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 3:40am
AGATHA .. my straight answer to you is that unless you've got something interesting to add to each of the discussions at hand .. be they informed .. a guess .. or otherwise ..
 
.. then it would probably be best for you to hold your breath before going into print and making a fool of yourself.
 
For your privileged information ..
 
I am a self sufficient BREEDER, OWNER, PUNTER & TRAINER.
 
And yes .. I am very politically active on issues involving the introduction of AI .. a CODE OF ETHICS .. and many other governance aspects of our industry.
 
I don't have much time for fools.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilalastud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 3:55am
Standing a stallion, working with stallions, importing stallions, does not make you any better a breeder. It does not give you some special insight into the breeding world. You try to offer something that breeders will spend their money on. It is probably more an exercise in human psychology. If you just wanted good genetics, there would be alot more unraced stallions.
 
The absolute majority of breeders out there would go weak at the knees if presented with a stallion shank, and pointed toward the beast. So the ability to work a stallion adds nothing to the value of your opinion, unless you opine on stallion handling.
 
Willy's expressions of opinion might not agree with my view of the world at all times, but I am very glad he can express those opinions, and that those opinions can be opposed with equal vigour.
 
I couldn't give a toss if he has never felt the stallion's hooves whistle past his ears, or put his shoulder to the mare. It doesn't make his opinion less valuable.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bagman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 4:09am
I'm confused...". while I believe that POSTPONED was at a career best just prior to XMAS and will end up not much better than a bread & butter sire that will struggle under AUSTRALIAN conditions." ...so Peters guilty of selecting stallions that suit their surrounds/country.

He helps select stallions to stand in NZ and he's guilty of importing suitable horses?
Cop the tip willy, if you guys start breeding neddies suitable to firm tracks and 1000mts you're gone.
Besides where would we get our 'stayers' from?
I don't have one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 4:29am
I get your point BAGMAN .. but as you know .. we've seen many stallions in the past who come out guns blazing in their first crop and then the wheels fall off.
 
FU PEG a prime example.
 
The level of racing in NZ is at times inferior to AUSTRALIA .. and unless the POSTPONED's can produce a few gooduns in your region .. then yes .. he will become just a domestic product ..
 
.. a bread & butter sire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Agatha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 5:00am
Ilala, You are missing the point, i'm not arguing his position to question or have an opinion, i'm challenging his credibility.

I'll give you an example

If I was to say that your farm is doomed because you have a lot of rubbish stallions that nobody likes, and as such, are forced to resort to cheap gimmicks to fill your books, what would it prove.

This may or may not be true but at least you've got the balls to have a go and at least you're showing initiative and backing your ability....I admire that even if I don't agree with your model. At least you are financing this operation and are fully aware and culpable for all your decision making.

Willy, looks to be an armchair critic, happy to sit on his backside and fight for unwinnable causes while all the time destroying the reputations and work of others.

He doesn't like Peter Jenkins.... so what.

If he was a man he would treat him like everyone elso and pass commentary on his horses and then move on.  Instead he tries to belittle and destroy his credibility at every opportunity. There is nothing to admire about this, it is the work of a small minded person.

I just think that Willy carries on like New Zealand's version of John Messara, the only difference is that John Messara has been responsible for shuttling Danehill and standing Redoutes Choice, Flying Spur Danzero etc and Willy has bred a couple of stakes horses and traded a bit to Singapore......the difference is so huge it's embarrassing, yet even though Messara is very vocal about the industry, you don't see him carrying on like an absolute imbecile.

Willy's volume and level of authority just don't stack up.....

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 5:36am
With due respect Agatha, no-one has a requirement to justify themselves, or demonstrate their experience or bona-fides, on the Forums.
 
Sometimes Willy makes a great case, other times perhaps not.  Just like you or I perhaps.

However the reality in all this is that everyone is entitled to express opinions with or without reasoning, and it's for others to make their own judgements as to the validity of those opinions.

But importantly imo, no-one needs to have necessarily climbed Mt Everest to express an opinion about the difficulty or otherwise of doing so.
 
 
It's hard to soar with eagles...

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ilalastud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:39am
No, I dont miss your point. Your basic argument is that Willy lacks credibility. You have attempted to base this lack of credibility on an assumption that Willy has not imported, purchased, stood or worked with stallions himself. That is your contention.
 
By that logic, does my band of "rubbish stallions" on my "doomed to failure" farm therefore give me more credibility than someone who has not run a farm, or stood stallions?
 
Does it make me more credible than you for instance? Does it make my opinion worth more than yours?
 
I agree that pointless sniping at people is not needed in this forum.
 
But methinks Willy is not alone in the snide remark department, eh Aggie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Placid Ark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 8:10am
Agatha,
 
Willy is like the many losers in all walks of life who choose to bring down those who 'have a go'. Tall-poppy syndrome is what it's called in Australia.
 
Instead of having a go themselves, they prefer to complain about everything that is stopping them from achieving their goals.
 
These people may be entitled to an opinion but, much like a democratic system, imbeciles are at times given the reins Thumbs%20Down
 
These people have a common denominator...FAILURE...and we must avoid association at all costs...otherwise we too may declare selling a crock by a failed sire to Singapore as our career highlight...Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 1:30pm
Wasn't a bad racehorse PLACID ARC .. and just a pity that some form of unidentifiable lowlife associated with the dodgy side of this industry has chosen to hide behind it.
 
Then again .. that's what we've got .. and it's great fun hunting them down.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 4:32pm
As I guessed, a reply utterly lacking in facts and substance which is what we come to expect from you, Willy. At least you have had your opinion which i am grateful for particularly on our stallion lineup because as I said your bagging of any stallion is fast becoming the benchmark for many breeders to seriously consider using such horses. So keep up the good work.
 
Look you lost the Hussonet bet, so just build a bridge and get over it. We all make mistakes it's just that you believe you're infallible. Some others on this thread have got you pegged. Anyway this thread is supposed to be about Artie Schiller....not you and I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:14pm
Mate .. there is no "you & I".
 
Once AI is introduced into NZ the breeders won't be able to run fast enough to get away from the rubbish & hand-me-downs that you have dragged up from around the globe.
 
Give my best regards to MIKE.
 
And .. I just hope that his other investments cover this stallion line up .. not like the other poor studdies who are no longer 'with us'.Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anziyan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:24pm
Willy,
 
AI will NEVER be introduced in New Zealand....


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 10:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:37pm
AI is a certainty to be introduced in my lifetime.
 
I have an 8 page article here sent to me by the BREEDERS ASSOCIATION CEO which well details a 'softened' view to AI's introduction in the not too distant future. 
 
It will either happen voluntarily .. or via the courts. NZTR are presently on notice to deal with the unlawfull ban.
 
They are well aware that NZ's once great breeding record is being diminished by any number of rubbish stallions that are being brought into NZ by quick buck merchants who have no regard for the longterm future of the breed while taking advantage of a supply & access controlled market.
 
Many stallions would do a starve under an AI breeding option regime...


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 10:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jenkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:40pm
Willy, you are so funny Clap
 
Postponed cost his owners $200k to purchase and this year alone he's earned over $1m.......do the math. The other stallions all pay their way too. the day the don't they're out the door. Your knowledge of the commercial stallion business is sadly deficient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrs Doubtfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2007 at 6:59pm
I had been enjoying the new forum so far, but am disappointed to see this thread going down the same path as so many on the old forum - name calling, personal attacks etc.. etc.  Come on children, clean it up  PLEASE !Angry 


Edited by Mayor - 27 Feb 2007 at 10:49pm
"GOOD ENOUGH" is just not Good Enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Placid Ark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 1:42am
Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

Wasn't a bad racehorse PLACID ARC .. and just a pity that some form of unidentifiable lowlife associated with the dodgy side of this industry has chosen to hide behind it.
 
Then again .. that's what we've got .. and it's great fun hunting them down.LOL
 
I think you'll find I'm right and it's spelt Placind Ark..
 
Also, what makes you think I'm from the dodgy side of the industry? Or is that just an attempt to divert attention from your own flaws and lack of character???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Run For Fun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 2:29am
Agree with you Mrs D.  The thread started very well, but is now going no-where and in its latter stages is a perfect example of why the Torquil's of this world no longer visit the forums.
 
So guys and girls, and speaking of course as a perfect example of a perfect person who has never made even a single naughty comment in the forums LOL, why don't we just close this thread down.
 
And those who want to continue exchanging insults can maybe rent a room or a psych or visit the Chat Room. Approve
It's hard to soar with eagles...

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willy View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 2:45am

C'mon RUNFER .. you are spoiling my fun.

PETER JENKINS and I go back a long way and he's good fun in debate.

His "shadows" are even better.LOL

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Mayor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2007 at 5:26am

It might be fun for you two, but no-one else is laughing. Can you please use Private Messenger or Email to exchange personal insults? No-one else is at all interested, and it's an insult to you and your country to carry on like such school children. I think my kids are more mature. Thumbs%20Down

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