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Any Ideas on a Stallion for my mare

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Everisto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Everisto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Any Ideas on a Stallion for my mare
    Posted: 03 Jun 2009 at 10:27am
my mare Quiet Style (Canny Lad / Aspired).
Not sure on a stallion to send her to. I was think Bianconi or Elvstroem. What do you think?
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take2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote take2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2009 at 7:08pm
danehill line stallions apppear to go well enough with canny lad out of the 2 stallions u mentioned i like elvstroem, commands & testa rossa may be worth a go also
dont put mouth in gear before engaging brain

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2009 at 7:20pm
Nothing too wrong with either cross.  Quiet Style has been going to Danzig line sires without success but there are other pluses to both Bianconi and Elvstroem.
 
Bianconi is a total outcross for 5 generations but carries both Danzig/Bletchingly (which hasn't worked so far but does in many pedigrees) and the Khaled/Pipe of Peace cross.  They are the grandson and great grandson of Black Ray (also ancestress of Mill Reef) a very good dam.  She crossed well with THe Tetrarch and Swynford blood for her best two performers and Biscay is from The Tetrarch family and Star Kingdom from the Swynford family.   So while totally outcrossed you can see and mix of blood which generally works well together.
 
Elvstroem cross has Biscay 4m x 4m.  I prefer Biscay f x m or m x f but thats sometime hard to find (maybe Blevic with Biscay 3f x 4m and Mill Reef from the Pipe of Peace family).  You also have the added advantage of Danehill (he and Bletchingly/Canny Lad have a very strong attraction and appear in many stakes pedigrees) with his Ribot blood which was another strong performer when appearing in stakes pedigrees with Bletchingly/Canny Lad.  Elvstroem is from the 22-b family so is close to the 22-d family in that respect also.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2009 at 7:22pm
(So while totally outcrossed you can see and mix of blood which generally works well together.)
sorry - you can see a mix of blood - I forget to edit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Everisto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2009 at 10:46pm
thank you furious.
would you recommend any other stallions?
what would you consider your best choice and then your best value stallion?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 1:17am
I'm working now will have a look tomorrow or later
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 1:47am
Bianconi is on fire! His stock win races day in and day out. He is great value & crossing canny lad with him is a master stroke. I say that of course due to sending a canny lad to him myself!! Sadly she didnt get in foal, but my thought process was that due to the danehill/canny cross working so well... and the beautiful fall aspen aspect of Bianconi, it was a win/win situation!
 
So my choice would be Bianconi. He is great value, he throws ripping types & they perform on the track. The jury is out on the Elvis stock & his price is... well.. its in a whole other ball park to Bianconi!!
 
 
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 1:50am
The other horse I would suggest, and its a total oddball suggestion... but hey... who cares right?
 
Akhadan!!
 
yep.... gets a decent runner or 2... he has Danehill and also has Star Kingdom on his damline. So you get the danehill which works with Canny... and a 2nd cross of Star Kingdom!
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 2:43am
I like in no particular order
 
1. Desert King ( works very well with Canny Lad)
2. Mosman
3 . Bureaucracy
 
Good Luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rosscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 3:09am
Over - if you don't mind the closeness of Lunchtime in the pedigree!
Current Stable - "Aboutogobang" + "Supersay"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Everisto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 4:01am
all good suggestions thank you guys
 
there are 2 new stallions which my mate has told me apologia and your tent or mine
 
what your thoughts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 8:23am
OK not through yet but agree with Mr Prospector that Desert King looks very interesting.  He has both Danehill for the obvious Danehill and Nureyev like Caesour sire of Dane Julia the G1 winner from Quiet Style's Danehill 1/2 sister.
 
Apologia is a son of Danehill with some lovely blood but not much race performance.  You get Todman for your Noholme, Ribot and Sovereign Edition all good crosses for Canny Lad but with his blood I would of preferred some black type or a few more wins.
 
I think Danehill, Encosta de Lago, Nureyev, the Mill Reef blood through Last Tycoon, Ribot or Grey Sovereign blood should be your main objective.  These are the best crosses for a large part of your mares pedigrees.
 
Dangerous with Danehill and Faringdon & Relic is interesting for the cheaper brigade.  Likewise Bramshaw has Encosta, Grey Sovereign and Fairy King from the Nureyev family, Relic etc.
 
One interesting son of Danehill would be Arena who has crossed well with Noholme blood in the past and has Blushing Groom yet another decendant of Black Ray. But almost any decent son of Danehill as long as it isn't out of a Canny lad mare which is just too close is alright.  THe Akhadan cross mentioned above gives Bletchingly 3f x 3m which is as close as you want to go.  He also has Grey Sovereign so is a possible choice.
 
Spinning World also a son of Nureyev from the family of Redoute's Choice is interesting.  He crossed with Bletchingly in Thorn Park and Todman (full to Noholme) in Lyrical Bid.  And he is from the family of Redoute's Choice which has a Canny Lad dam.
 
Likewise Savoire Vivre has some interest away from Danehill as Sadler's Wells is also from the Nureyev family while he also has Khaled/for the Pipe of Peace cross and comes from the 9-c family which Canny Lad is inbred too.  Also sitting there is Ribot to help the pedigree along.
 
I can't see the idea behind tent or mine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 6:22pm
A couple of points.  Firstly, especially in the current climate, you need to be very careful about the price range of the stallion, and also if the aim is to sell or race the progeny.  There are some factors in stallion selection that would ensure a greater sales price in general.
 
My other point is regarding the family.  We seem to have an assumption that Danehill and Nureyev may be important seeing as they figure in the pedigree of a successful runner in the family called Dane Julia.  In the case of this runner, we must be aware firstly that she performed in South Africa, and secondly that a cursory glance at her pedigree will show a distinct relationship between the breeding of her sire, Caesour and Danehill.  In fact, not one duplication exists in the bottom quarter of Dane Julia's pedigree, yet the pedigree is quite heavily inbred.
 
The best runners from the mare to date have been by Grand Lodge and Black Hawk, and interestingly neither show any duplications within the first six generations.
 
One thing about the bag of genetic marbles is that we never know which ones we are going to get, and even when we get them, we don't know which ones thery were.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 7:18pm

That friend of the racehorse breeder - luck.  Always import progold

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Flash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 7:37pm
A couple of things:

The damline of Quiet Style travels to Bill And Coo, the damline of Somethingroyal Wink.

There are 4 lines of Bahram and 1 of Dastur in Aspired and 1 of Bahram and 2 of Dastur in Canny Lad adding up to 8 lines of Friar's Daughter ( so prominent in Bonecrusher many years ago). As with Bonecrusher, bringing in a daughter of Friar's Daughter may help. Fille D'Amour is  the granddam of The Phoenix. Wink
KAPOWWWW!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 7:48pm
Luck of course is a factor in any endeavour.  Horse races are after all won and lost by inches.  In the case of a comment in this thread about "any decent son of Danehill," we are more likely to get lucky by knowing what type of horse we are trying to breed, and then looking at sons of Danehill and seeing which son consistently produces this type.  Luck is often a matter of reducing the odds so that they are more in your favour.  When you back a winner, does it take more or less luck if they are even money or 100 to 1?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Flash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 7:52pm
These lines of Friar's Daughter are further accentuated because Canny Lad's granddam Beautiful Dreamer is 3x3 Dodoma by Dastur. Quiet Style's granddam Screen Test is by Sir Dane who is 3x3 Bahram. 
KAPOWWWW!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 8:18pm
I love Ken McLeans' remark, very roughly interpreted, to mean all the theoretical study put into a mating purely lessens the chance of breeding a dud LOL
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Everisto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2009 at 10:39pm
i will be racing the horse not selling.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2009 at 6:46pm
Then go to a proven stallion who leaves the type of horse that you want to race -whatever that may be.  You substationally lessen your risk by using a proven stallion. 
The problem with Opportunity is that it wears overalls and looks like work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troppo75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2009 at 6:59pm
Exactly... (reng) so... stallions like Bianconi or Akhadan are great breed to race stallions. Other good bread and butter horses Bite the Bullet, Happy Giggle, Blevic.. just off the top of my head!
 
 
Now having passed 1000 posts I feel you are all so much the wiser for my having said... stuff!
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