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All Star Mile Vic Autumn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 2:29pm
Be interesting if they can get any overseas raiders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 5:30pm
Okay first off everyone knows my thoughts on the wfa scale so I will not bore us with that.

But I actually think this is a good race idea. The placement for me is ideal, 3 weeks before the Doncaster and lead ins through the Orr and Futurity.

The reason I like it is because the ATC have let the chance slip. They dropped the All Aged back from the 1600m to 1400m, and the only wfa mile race they have late in the carnival is the Queen Of The Turf for the females.

Obviously they wanted Doncaster horses to go onto the Queen Elizabeth.

If you abandon a good group of horses then some other club will fill the void and the Victorians have done that.

The only problem I have is what has been stated earlier, we could get a Badger's Wood type situation, where we could get a non-stakes horse in there.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 5:54pm
This race highlights the stupidity of our racing.

Everything is crammed into too short a period. It is ALL rushed.

It is crap.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimbob04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 5:57pm
should be good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 9:37pm
The people will decide the field - what a lot of bulldust.  

They are creating the gold logie of Australian racing.  I reckon Home and Away will win.

But the twitter crowd will love it.  They will feel they are engaged and part of the action.  They might even take a photo of themselves to celebrate.  

All that will happen is that the Doncaster and Ryder Stakes will be diluted.  Maybe even the Australian Cup as well.  They will have thrown up another option for horses to avoid racing each other.

This is the stupidity of the pattern system.  It continues to grow fat at the top where it should be pointy.  

We don't need more Group 1 races, we need less.  We need to engineer a racing calender that channels the best horses into fewer races, compelling them to contest races against the best. 

It is a large part of why AUstralian racing is so pissweak.  It is designed to be pissweak.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

The people will decide the field - what a lot of bulldust.  

They are creating the gold logie of Australian racing.  I reckon Home and Away will win.

But the twitter crowd will love it.  They will feel they are engaged and part of the action.  They might even take a photo of themselves to celebrate.  

All that will happen is that the Doncaster and Ryder Stakes will be diluted.  Maybe even the Australian Cup as well.  They will have thrown up another option for horses to avoid racing each other.

This is the stupidity of the pattern system.  It continues to grow fat at the top where it should be pointy.  

We don't need more Group 1 races, we need less.  We need to engineer a racing calender that channels the best horses into fewer races, compelling them to contest races against the best. 

It is a large part of why AUstralian racing is so pissweak.  It is designed to be pissweak.




Very well said. Far too many G1s. Races like the Memsie and Makybe Diva should not be G1 races for example.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brudder_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 10:52pm
What's more this event is for the Shieks, Oligarchs, Multi-horse owners who can another limelight for their involvement in the industry.

Rather than spend $5 million on grassroots Clubs around the state anudder propped up gradeless race with now public input is sleazeing its way into wannabee appreciations.

Dunkeld on the weekend had 10,000 for their meet. But the lines to buy food and drink and not enuff dunnies made folks wonder WTF and "Why do I have to put up with this krep?" Racing Victoria's reckons you should just suck it up and then give a standing ovation for those megastars who race for multi-million purses.

Thanks4Coming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 11:03pm
Dunkeld doesn’t even have on course electricity!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

This is the stupidity of the pattern system.  It continues to grow fat at the top where it should be pointy.



This is the stupidity of Australia's non pattern system.

There is no pattern to top class racing in Australia.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

The people will decide the field - what a lot of bulldust.  

They are creating the gold logie of Australian racing.  I reckon Home and Away will win.

But the twitter crowd will love it.  They will feel they are engaged and part of the action.  They might even take a photo of themselves to celebrate.  

All that will happen is that the Doncaster and Ryder Stakes will be diluted.  Maybe even the Australian Cup as well.  They will have thrown up another option for horses to avoid racing each other.

This is the stupidity of the pattern system.  It continues to grow fat at the top where it should be pointy.  

We don't need more Group 1 races, we need less.  We need to engineer a racing calender that channels the best horses into fewer races, compelling them to contest races against the best. 

It is a large part of why AUstralian racing is so pissweak.  It is designed to be pissweak.



Otherwise I agree.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 1:18am
Group Ones should be the Pinnacle of a prep, not lead up races. You want the best racing the best...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 10:28am
Originally posted by pnclick pnclick wrote:

Group Ones should be the Pinnacle of a prep, not lead up races. You want the best racing the best...

To a point I agree but you must remember although the horses may start their preps about the same time they don't always peak together for reasons you would best know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Tontonan Tontonan wrote:

The people will decide the field - what a lot of bulldust.  

They are creating the gold logie of Australian racing.  I reckon Home and Away will win.

But the twitter crowd will love it.  They will feel they are engaged and part of the action.  They might even take a photo of themselves to celebrate.  

All that will happen is that the Doncaster and Ryder Stakes will be diluted.  Maybe even the Australian Cup as well.  They will have thrown up another option for horses to avoid racing each other.

This is the stupidity of the pattern system.  It continues to grow fat at the top where it should be pointy.  

We don't need more Group 1 races, we need less.  We need to engineer a racing calender that channels the best horses into fewer races, compelling them to contest races against the best. 

It is a large part of why AUstralian racing is so pissweak.  It is designed to be pissweak.



The proliferation of G1s works for the studs and I assume that's why the system was created. You hear commentary all the time- if colt x wins a G1 his value will double and if it wins one of the prestige G1s (and that's not a tautology) much more than that.

Seems to me a remarkably simple minded way of assessing a horse's worth but that's the way it works, apparently. If I was looking to purchase an untried sire's service I would drill down into his performances, not just read the labels on them, to see how much I thought they added to the value of the service. A G2 win can be a higher quality performance than a G1 win.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by Brudder_A Brudder_A wrote:

What's more this event is for the Shieks, Oligarchs, Multi-horse owners who can another limelight for their involvement in the industry.

Rather than spend $5 million on grassroots Clubs around the state anudder propped up gradeless race with now public input is sleazeing its way into wannabee appreciations.

Dunkeld on the weekend had 10,000 for their meet. But the lines to buy food and drink and not enuff dunnies made folks wonder WTF and "Why do I have to put up with this krep?" Racing Victoria's reckons you should just suck it up and then give a standing ovation for those megastars who race for multi-million purses.

Thanks4Coming.


Okay lets see if next years race will be for the sheiks and big horse owners.

Top 15 milers right now.

1. Hartnell
2. Le Romain
3. Winx
4. Shillelagh
5. Land Of Plenty
6. D'Argento
7. Unforgotten
8. Best Of Days
9. Cliff's Edge
10.Grunt
11.The Autumn Sun
12.Oohood
13.Amphitrite
14.Railway Stakes winner

So it is not so much a sheiks and rich mans race, but a Weir & Waller race. Just call it the Darren & Chris All Stars Mile and be done with it.

The others on the shortlist for people to vote for would probably include Seige Of Quebec, Peaceful State, Ringerdingding, Fundamentalist.

I totally agree that grassroots are being ignored, and also absolutely agree that group 1's should be at the end of carnivals, but that ship has sailed with the Memsie, Orr, and Makybe Divaas well as the Winx Stakes already crossing that line.

It is also a reason why The Everest should be made a group 1, because it is the culmination of the Sydney spring sprinters races.

Having said all this I see no reason why this race should not succeed. The only races it will dilute is the early races in Sydney such as the Apollo and the Chipping Norton. Horses being aimed at the Australian cup have been mostloy stayers in the last decade so they would not be running at a mile anyway, and the George Ryder is usually for sprinters looking to stretch out to 1500m.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

The two clear favourites in Australia's top mile wfa race held next autumn would be Winx and TAS. I have no idea who would be third favourite- daylight. What are the odds of either of those two running in this race?


"Australian racing’s newest star – The Autumn Sun – appears unlikely to run in the $5m All-Star Mile.

It means there is a high probability that neither Winx nor The Autumn Sun, currently the $1.80 favourite and $7 second favourite with Sportsbet for the All-Star Mile, will be seen in the new 1600m race at Flemington in March."


Ben Dorries, Racenet

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/will-the-autumn-sun-rise-for-all-star-mile-20181120


I guess Grunt is the third favourite. Accompanied by the usual suspects, Humidor and 5 more Weir runners.

"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baguette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 4:24pm
The Autumn Sun and Winx won't start in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Whiffler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 10:13pm
Bart, TJ & Sugar Lips would be turning in their graves hearing that horses are bypassing a $5m race. This is the result of the Hunter Valley running Australian racing. They don’t need the money. Maybe RV should just tip the money into BM58’s, there’s enough trainers out there eating paint of the walls. At least they would appreciate it more than Messara & co.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Originally posted by Brudder_A Brudder_A wrote:

What's more this event is for the Shieks, Oligarchs, Multi-horse owners who can another limelight for their involvement in the industry.

Rather than spend $5 million on grassroots Clubs around the state anudder propped up gradeless race with now public input is sleazeing its way into wannabee appreciations.

Dunkeld on the weekend had 10,000 for their meet. But the lines to buy food and drink and not enuff dunnies made folks wonder WTF and "Why do I have to put up with this krep?" Racing Victoria's reckons you should just suck it up and then give a standing ovation for those megastars who race for multi-million purses.

Thanks4Coming.


Okay lets see if next years race will be for the sheiks and big horse owners.

Top 15 milers right now.

1. Hartnell
2. Le Romain
3. Winx
4. Shillelagh
5. Land Of Plenty
6. D'Argento
7. Unforgotten
8. Best Of Days
9. Cliff's Edge
10.Grunt
11.The Autumn Sun
12.Oohood
13.Amphitrite
14.Railway Stakes winner

Happy Clapper - Definitely above all bar Winx on this list as of accomplishments thus far at a mile.
Sesar - Has shown the ability at a mile to be on this list
Zousain - Same as above

So it is not so much a sheiks and rich mans race, but a Weir & Waller race. Just call it the Darren & Chris All Stars Mile and be done with it.

The others on the shortlist for people to vote for would probably include Seige Of Quebec, Peaceful State, Ringerdingding, Fundamentalist.

I totally agree that grassroots are being ignored, and also absolutely agree that group 1's should be at the end of carnivals, but that ship has sailed with the Memsie, Orr, and Makybe Divaas well as the Winx Stakes already crossing that line.

It is also a reason why The Everest should be made a group 1, because it is the culmination of the Sydney spring sprinters races.

Having said all this I see no reason why this race should not succeed. The only races it will dilute is the early races in Sydney such as the Apollo and the Chipping Norton. Horses being aimed at the Australian cup have been mostloy stayers in the last decade so they would not be running at a mile anyway, and the George Ryder is usually for sprinters looking to stretch out to 1500m.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 9:35am
Well I for one hope Winx continues to race in NSW so I can say goodbye to her on Golden Slipper day.  She has been the highlight for us on that day for a few years now.  Nothing against the Victorians trying something new.  I just hope to see my favourites in NSW the following week.  I can't travel to Victoria at that time due to work.  

The George Main is the 1600m WFA championship.  Winx, Kingston Town, Shannon, Lonhro, Shaftsbury Avenue, Emancipation, Baguette, Wenona Star, Sacred Falls, Kermadec, Shoot Out, Imposing, Streama, More Joyous, Grand Armee, Mentality, Shogun Lodge, Durbridge etc etc etc.  You can't say that this list isn't extremely good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lordy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 9:45am
Field will be decided by Russian bots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonfield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 4:17pm
Stupid race imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 4:27pm
It will be interesting to see if they assume the Blamey Stakes as the All Star Mile ...or whetever the hell they call it. 

If they do they will assume the Blamey's Group 2 status - and we will lose a race named in honour of one of our most important soldiers for a cutesy marketing exercise with the sole purpose of thumbing their noses at the ATC.

Our racing administrators are pathetic.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawy38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 4:33pm
I want this to field with some no hopers
Horses like Entirely Perfect, Sommernachstraum, Rets and Earthling

Let’s hope all four get a run
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gee Gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 8:09pm
Spoilt brat who shovels down the meat pies Nick Williams (who bags the Everest) can fill half this field with his Plodders first up.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 8:44am
Hartnell $26 TAB/UBET
Le Romain $34 Sportsbet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by pnclick pnclick wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Originally posted by ExceedAndExcel ExceedAndExcel wrote:

So the public is going to vote on who gets a run? They better be careful with this one or they’ll have another Badger’s Wood on their hands!


HorseyMcHorseyFace

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LOL Everytime they run a public vote, they end up with the joke response. 

Maybe Crafty Cruiser or a rematch with Skyfire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Formerly Kincsem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 2:11pm
Does not sit comfortably that The Autumn Sun's connections are publicly confirming they intend to  dodge Winx. I find it absolutely pathetic and particularly when they state they wouldn't want to beat her like they think they have a live chance. Personally I wouldn't support the horse at stud out of principle and the fact I think Redoubt's are pea-hearted just like the owners.

Harsh, yes. But imagine if Northerly was campaigned around Sunline. What a build-up if they both ran, would be great for racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Formerly Kincsem Formerly Kincsem wrote:

Does not sit comfortably that The Autumn Sun's connections are publicly confirming they intend to  dodge Winx. I find it absolutely pathetic and particularly when they state they wouldn't want to beat her like they think they have a live chance. Personally I wouldn't support the horse at stud out of principle and the fact I think Redoubt's are pea-hearted just like the owners.

Harsh, yes. But imagine if Northerly was campaigned around Sunline. What a build-up if they both ran, would be great for racing.

It's marketing hype - they will definitely end up racing if he comes back as dominant. The way I see it they only have one real 'out' against racing Winx and that is to make the Doncaster the 'goal'. The only other way he avoids her and also doesn't run in this mile race is by going what, Randwick Guineas - Rosehill Guineas, seems a crazy underwhelming prep, feel like even if he went undefeated in that prep (without the Doncaster) it would probably if anything dent his value a bit. 

He really has to win a Doncaster or run Winx a tight race in the QE to maintain the hype.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Formerly Kincsem Formerly Kincsem wrote:

Does not sit comfortably that The Autumn Sun's connections are publicly confirming they intend to  dodge Winx. I find it absolutely pathetic and particularly when they state they wouldn't want to beat her like they think they have a live chance. Personally I wouldn't support the horse at stud out of principle and the fact I think Redoubt's are pea-hearted just like the owners.

Harsh, yes. But imagine if Northerly was campaigned around Sunline. What a build-up if they both ran, would be great for racing.

Sounds a bit like SEPOY actively dodging BLACK CAVIAR. It was indicated early on he would not take her on and look for other races, trying to protect stud value.

Personally, I think Group 1 races should be heavily cut back to encourage the best to race the best. And even change the prizemoney structure of these races so they are not so heavily geared to the winner. The issue you have at the moment is why race for 2nd against WINX in say the Group 1 Turnbull Stakes, when 2nd prizemoney is less than winning most normal races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heavenly Glow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Formerly Kincsem Formerly Kincsem wrote:

Does not sit comfortably that The Autumn Sun's connections are publicly confirming they intend to  dodge Winx. I find it absolutely pathetic and particularly when they state they wouldn't want to beat her like they think they have a live chance. Personally I wouldn't support the horse at stud out of principle and the fact I think Redoubt's are pea-hearted just like the owners.

Harsh, yes. But imagine if Northerly was campaigned around Sunline. What a build-up if they both ran, would be great for racing.

Connections are dodging Winx because the Autumn Sun would not get anywhere near Winx. 
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