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advert. advising 70% greyhounds killed

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jimdog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 10:56am
As an owner /trainer I'm so frustrated with the total bullsh#t from Baird and Co. How can one man control so many families lives and not care about the impact that decision will bring. History shows what he has done is unprecedented in nsw politics.
And as you say Fiddlesticks the gap maybe filled in 2 seconds but the gap in thousands of people's lives will never be filled.There will be bankruptcy divorces and suicides caused by this government.
cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 11:05am
When you love something jimdog as you say above the 2 seconds becomes a lifetime.  Many people have to find something else to do and when you many be hundreds of thousands in debt to the banks setting up your property to standards (the modern way) the government has to pay.  Otherwise how can they still take the high ground.  Driving people to the wall is unforgivable when those people are innocent of wrong doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 11:48am
That all sounds great Michael.....the problem is many participants "don't" love the animals that are the backbone of the industry.....the dogs. If they did they would not be getting premetuly slaughtered by the thousands on a yearly basis.....& it's not just a rogue few that is being thrown out there.....it is the industry norm. Unfortunately dogs cannot talk.....or can those little furry creatures used for live baiting....pity.....we might then get a balanced incite into who is copping the roughest deal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 11:50am
Apologies....that reply was to Furious.....not Michael
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by Kong Kong wrote:

Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

By 18mths they've been broken in & deemed to have potential or not. Many anecdotal reports suggest 70% of each litter is put down with 8 being the average size for greyhounds.

your friends are obviously brain dead if that's what they reckon.

after costing on average 7k+ pls to ONE pup rear to 18months they get knocked on the head? bullgelati.

most dogs aren't broken in till 13-14 months. that stakes a month. they get a month off before pre training starts. pre training takes up to 10 weeks followed but a short break.

by this time its close to 19 months and they still have been in a field or most have been near 500m.  the vast majority of dogs continue to improve until they are 30months.

wastage is the biggest lie told in this disgrace.



Wow!! What takes them so long? Mine won her 1st race at B'rat at 13mths & a 720m at 15mths. She had 30+ starts with 27 top3 so no one can say she burnt out early. Temlees were tough Wink
Gallopers are maturing faster & greyhounds in reverse Ouch
My 'acquaintances' not friends, breed 1 or 2 litters/year for themselves as would at least 40% in the industry who breed, race & train their own.

only a fool runs a pup in race at 13 months. I am 99% sure its now illegal to run a dog under 16 months. their bones haven't matured and its a guarantee they wont have along career.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Originally posted by Heavy10 Heavy10 wrote:

Are you sure it was 13 months Gay?

DOB: Feb 77
Apr 1 78  1st B'rat 451 followed by 2nd@ 647 3rd@ 451
Jun 3       1st   "     647 then 2nd
Jun 27     1st  Geel. 592
Oct 13     1st  Olympic  511  at 1st city attempt  21mths

44 starts  14/12/7  not bad for $200 as a pet out of the Sporting Globe


I believe some of the politicians against the ban refused to vote, hence it seems like none crossed over


geez almost 40 years ago. irrelevant to the current discussion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Heavy10 Heavy10 wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Anyway it's gone passed the arguing about numbers stage....average Joes don't need convincing.....don't have to be Einstein to work out there arnt too many old greyhounds walking around !

Not getting into an argument on here again. My time has been spent elsewhere.

remember where you are. the horses will benefit most from the dogs going.

if the dogs stayed the tab agreement would be under massive pressure and the horse could lose the subsidy from the dogs.

I find those in the TB industry looking down their noses at greyhound people an accurate representation of so many TB people. Sure there are some good people but they are in the minority. Too many bigots and hypocrits.

If wastage wasn't a problem in TB's why is the industry fighting cycle of life.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jimdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2016 at 2:43pm
Can't agree more Kong, I'm very surprised with the lack of support from the tbs and trots cause there next.
Honestly the lies in the report are a disgrace.simply its not fair that the government can do this. love the dogs and I've owned galloped for nearly 30 years however we think there not on the radar we are dreaming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 8:53am
thought this was an interesting example of the McHugh report. this from a former judge who "apparently" is fairly intelligent. 


11.122 The commission notes that a number of whelping notices which were provided by GRNSW stated that the litter comprised far fewer than the average litter size of 6.3 pups. Significant numbers of litters were reported and registered as one pup only. One explanation for this maybe that some participants do not want to incur the expense of raising, training and racing more than one or two dogs and discard the remainder rather than have this registered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 10:50am
Kong,it just proves to me that they don't know what they are talking about.i told you a million times do not exadurate or how about when you assume, etc.no facts at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 11:08am
They just don't want to do the correct homework.  I'm very disappointed in everyone in this state at the moment.  What happened to a fair go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 5:20pm
a huge number of pet greys are now being registered with GRNSW in order to obtain financial assistance. these dogs aren't recorded anywhere and were assumed dead by McHugh.

McHugh didn't allow for dogs exported, sold interstate, lost in paddock accidents or illness or kept as pets. When you deduct these from his 'wastage' figure of 60-70k there is a black hole in the numbers.

its possibly the biggest fraud perpetrated by a govt in this countries history.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 5:38pm
Blame the ones who niggled and started this Peta.  They appear on the side of animals but I'm sure they aren't.  There are so many guesses taken as truth that even my track record of muddling up names looks minor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2016 at 5:39pm
I see.....NSW only exports dogs... does not import any.....I would have thought it would sort of balance itself out a touch ! I also note you placed "kept as pets" after "accidents" & "illness"......at least we agree on something.......that would be the logical order ! Not sure why a huge gathering of concerned owners don't get together with their elderly dogs & make a protest. Theoretically there should be thousands & thousands of them !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

I see.....NSW only exports dogs... does not import any.....I would have thought it would sort of balance itself out a touch ! I also note you placed "kept as pets" after "accidents" & "illness"......at least we agree on something.......that would be the logical order ! Not sure why a huge gathering of concerned owners don't get together with their elderly dogs & make a protest. Theoretically there should be thousands & thousands of them !

anyone who knows the industry knows nsw is a significant net exporter of dogs. look at the vic/nsw form guides. if they are from interstate its shown next to the dogs name.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

Blame the ones who niggled and started this Peta.  They appear on the side of animals but I'm sure they aren't.  There are so many guesses taken as truth that even my track record of muddling up names looks minor.


peta. lol. some gruesome stories about their habits floating around the net.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 8:26pm
Done themselves no favors by threatening peoples live with death threats..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heavy10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2016 at 9:46pm
Well the Gold Coast looks certain to get a new greyhound track, Qld making most of NSW ban, lots of Northern NSW trainers will be lured across the border. Harness track also to be built on same site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2016 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by Kong Kong wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

I see.....NSW only exports dogs... does not import any.....I would have thought it would sort of balance itself out a touch ! I also note you placed "kept as pets" after "accidents" & "illness"......at least we agree on something.......that would be the logical order ! Not sure why a huge gathering of concerned owners don't get together with their elderly dogs & make a protest. Theoretically there should be thousands & thousands of them !

anyone who knows the industry knows nsw is a significant net exporter of dogs. look at the vic/nsw form guides. if they are from interstate its shown next to the dogs name.





That makes perfect sense to me Kong. NSW is rarely a net importer of anything ... like the thoroughbreds, you don't get many geldings that are too slow for Fanny Bay or Launceston or Mount Gambier or Pinjarra, being sold to owners in Sydney to race at Randwick.

Very little else in this sorry saga has made any sense.

I just love how they empower an 80 year old (who was forced to retire from his job 10 years ago) with the authority to write a report on something he knows nothing about anyway.

Not that they have bothered to read it or act on the recommendations anyway!

Based on the "evidence", there are thousands of perpetrators out there looking down the barrel of jail terms for cruelty charges over the past 10 years ... why is no one even charged?Confused


In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 10:27am
Interesting article in DT from Warren Mundine.

The fair go and the truth should be front and centre.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/greyhound-bans-guts-decent-people-of-the-industry/news-story/2dd54c95ce41464fcba56037a5b8521e

Where's Joe Friday now ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Prospector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 5:36pm
Taking all the emotion out of the argument and looking at what Baird has done from a legal standpoint , puts an interesting perspective on how we as Australians work and interact with animals . 
I'm no legal eagle and would be happy to be corrected by a more legally qualified opinion , but under all law there is a basic premise that we must all be treated equally . 
In other words we can't discriminate how the law treats one person in there business or pursuits as against another . The greyhound ruling / law has put people who previously worked or looked after and handled a specific breed of dog on a different level to all other people who have anything to do with animals . 
 i.e. the new law discriminates how those people in the greyhound industry are to be viewed by the law (criminals with heavy penalties) .
From what I can see this can work one of two ways , it will open the case for discrimination against the greyhound people and overturn the law or it has set a legal precedent how all people who have any control over ANY animal be viewed by the law . People who own pets , farmers who grow cows and people who race horses all should be banned equally under the eyes of the law . 
People all should be treated equally under the eyes of the law and where this will go is going to be a terrible terrible legal bun fight . 
Whatever Baird's motivation he has opened an animal equivalent of Pandoras Box very stupidly . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 6:01pm
Not sure about that basic premise Mr Prospector. Lots of examples where people are treated differently for numerous reasons.... Be it in business or in life in general. If I wanted to set up an industry to race & bet on Afgans tomorrow I would not be allowed.....so how I would be getting treated equally with Greyhound participants. Lots of industries are regulated.....resulting in the restriction of trade for those not part of it

Not once in your post did you refer to the cruelty to the animal. Seems to often be overlooked by those arguing about how "bad" this decision is ! You are correct that in time it may be used as a precedent for other animal welfare areas. That will need to be argued on a case by case basis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr E Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 6:39pm
Once again, 250,000 domestic cats and dogs will be eutanised by the RSPCA this YEAR.

Many of them - far more than the alleged 4,000 greyhounds who are "wasted" - will have been cruelly mistreated by HUMANS.

So based on the premise that this "inhumane wastage" has gone on and on unabated, and the industry participants cannot be trusted to fix the problem, surely the NSW Government must crack down and ban the ownership of domestic cats and dogs as pets ... lest they be viewed as hypocrites and acting under a completely separate covert agenda (which WILL eventually be exposed, the ABC are working on it now, since the actual expose has blown up in their left wing faces).

In fact, there is not an industry that involves the human interaction with animals that does not include some manner of "cruelty" and "wastage" ... so SHUT THEM ALL DOWN ... or none!

The whole decision is biased, selective, unconstitutional and indefensible, based on the bare facts.

... and it will cost lives.
In reference to every post in the Trump thread ... "There may have been a tiny bit of license taken there" ... Ok, Thanks for the "heads up" PT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 7:15pm
Whilst there is logic to your argument Dr.....it is a path that leads to nothing ever changing. It means humans can do what ever they darn well like to animals... .as you can always throw up some example somewhere else that minimises / justifies it. The fact remains there is no practical way to dramatically reduce "wastage" in the greyhound industry......& your argument only serves to muddy the water to preserve the status quo . The biggest single issue for me is that it is not an "essential" industry..... the end game of purely providing a means for a small percentage of the population to have a bet is not sufficient to justify the inherent animal cruelty. I mean I also hate live export.....& would love to see it get rissoled as well... however at least it is feeding people.

What Baird is saying is that there is no logical way to improve the position.....that even with the best intent it will again deteriorate back to the smokes & mirrors crap that has always undermined the way the game operates. Even now the focus seems to be on the figures in the report.....as if that really matters. You know , I know & blind Freddie knows that many thousands of dogs are used as a commodity by industry participants. Few are genuine pets. Few get to live a long life. The industry needs to get over the semantics & admit this is the case....& then try to convince the general community that they can significantly improve the situation. If they can genuinely do this they may deserve another chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 8:16pm
oneonesit you fail to see that a greyhound will probably never be happy just being a pet.  Working dogs need to work it's bred into them.  I watched my part cattle dog round up the kids enough when they were young.  So it isn't doing them any favours not letting them race.  So as a bred they will die out.  That is sad as they have a history and are great dogs.  Better than some of the yappy little things people have for pets today.

They have to be exercised and most people don't have the time to do that - not to the extent needed.  Obviously they won't be allowed to run - which make the vast majority of them happy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 8:23pm
And I started this because the add put out and endorsed by our state government is full of lies and I hate lies!  Two wrongs don't make a right.  Making people believe a lie isn't right.  You say no dogs should die.  I say lots of dogs have good caring owners and trainers who look after them into their old age.  You are unprepared to care about these people or their love of the sport and the dogs.  As the good Dr says.  This has opened up a can of worms.  I love animals and people need more contact not less.  Animals can be mistreated - so can people and usually by the same people.  If someone can hurt an animal they can hurt a person or child.  But animals can bring people back from the edge of despair.  They can be a guide to people in prison helping them learn new life skills etc.  Animals are important in so many ways and there are people out there working to shut down any industry to do with animals.  Well the premier has opened up the doors and I fear for the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by furious furious wrote:

oneonesit you fail to see that a greyhound will probably petnever be happy just being a pet.  Working dogs need to work it's bred into them.  I watched my part cattle dog round up the kids enough when they were young.  So it isn't doing them any favours not letting them race.  So as a bred they will die out.  That is sad as they have a history and are great dogs.  Better than some of the yappy little things people have for pets today.

They have to be exercised and most people don't have the time to do that - not to the extent needed.  Obviously they won't be allowed to run - which make the vast majority of them happy.




wrong


Although greyhounds are the fastest breed of dog they achieve their incredible speeds in one all out sprint and do not have a great deal of endurance. A greyhound is quite content to be a "couch potato" and spend most of the day sleeping. They require no more exercise than your average pet dog. Many live happy healthy lives with only a small fenced yard and occasional walks on a leash. Although a fenced yard is definitely preferred in certain cases dogs are available to homes with leash exercise only.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 8:33pm
I find that easy to believe as I have a couch potato dog with a greyhound father.  But if he gets in what we call his syco mood he runs.  Particularly at the dog park.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 8:34pm
But will people still bred them if racing stops?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2016 at 8:37pm
Absolute furphy furious, they're couch potatoes if allowed to be, in fact one of the best breeds to own as a pet as they're bred for soundness, so are very healthy, rarely bark & are equally loyal/loving. Their only negative is a 'hound' thing i.e. selective hearing LOL
I've had a few so am speaking from personal experience & all g'hound owners will back me.
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