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Adding speed to a middle distance mare

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Sister Dot View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 10:30am
Sire under or around 15K Help appreciated, need to book her in
Mare has Hussonet on sire side and Dehere on dam side, Deputy Minister.
4x5 Mr P
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Second Chance View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 10:43am
Tanbon it'd be a lot easier if you gave us the mare's name.  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 10:45am
If we get a name I hope we talk class rather than short course speed.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 10:53am
I agree with the above posters, you've given us about 1/16 of her genetic makeup - tho' maths certainly isn't my strong point!
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 12:16pm
The mare appears to be Wild Hostess.

A complicating factor is that the mare is essentially bred along sprinter/miler lines, despite racing over longer ground.

I'd possibly look to duplicate the marvelous Thong/Rough Shod in a future mating, and Smart Missile and Fighting Sun are among those who might be considered.

Others may have different opinions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 1:00pm
Sorry, yes the mare is Wild Hostess. She’s sound and has a Excelebration filly on her now, first foal. Have been advised to upgrade and add speed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 1:07pm
Deep Field has been recommended by an astute judge to compliment her lineage and add speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 1:13pm
[QUOTE=tanbon] [QUOTE=tanbon] Deep Field has been recommended by an astute judge to compliment her lineage and add speed ? To be honest we are baulking at the cost. Dithering as to what to do. FS was on my initial list of sires but I’m a rank beginner at this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 1:50pm
Yes this is a bit weak with the original mare imported a winner of 10 races including black type races which are like our restricted listed.  Any mare who can win 10 races obviously has some ability and she also threw 8 runners for 8 winners.  The best being by Fairy King and Hennessy.  But even your mare's dam and a sybling by Anabaa won in the city.

So Second Chance's idea of Encosta blood as a son of Fairy King and bringing in more Special Thong blood isn't a bad idea.  If you can add some Biscay/Bletchingly as Biscay and Dehere are the same female line it would be a bonus also. 

So you have Fighting Sun just at that $15K mark but even the Tassy boy Needs Further has the right mix of Encosta/Bletchingly/Biscay.  Rubick is advertised as dearer but you could work for a reduced rate.  Likewise Manhattan Rain who also has that Encosta/Bletchingly cross.

Hennessy blood isn't that readily available  One which you would have to get a reduced rate for could be No Nay Never a son of Scat Daddy from the Hennessy sireline.  This still has the Mr Prospector crosses but gives you Ogygian (in Johannesburg) and Fappiano (in Host) who share the same grandam.

Good luck with your decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 1:52pm
WILD HOSTESS (AUS)Bay filly 2009 
Host
Chestnut 2000
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Chestnut 1961
Native Dancer
Raise You
1950
1946
5-f
8-f
Gold Digger
Bay 1962
Nashua
Sequence
1952
1946
3-m
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Bay 1968
Bold Ruler
Missy Baba
1954
1958
8-d
3-l
Nalees Flying Flag
Bay 1975
Hoist the Flag
Nalee
1968
1960
5-i
9-f
Colonna Traiana
Chestnut 1993
Roy
Bay 1983
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Adlibber
Bay 1977
Never Bend
Ivy Hackett
1960
1966
19-b
13-c
Propinada
Bay 1981
Prologo
Bay 1962
Paresa
Despejada
1955
1958
1-u
5-h
Cota
1973
Aslam
Coteria
1965
1958
 
22-a
Djel d'Amour
Brown 1999
Dehere
Bay 1991
Deputy Minister
Bay or brown 1979
Vice Regent
Chestnut 1967
Northern Dancer
Victoria Regina
1961
1958
2-d
10-c
Mint Copy
Bay or brown 1970
Bunty's Flight
Shakney
1953
1964
19-b
10-a
Sister Dot
Bay 1985
Secretariat
Chestnut 1970
Bold Ruler
Somethingroyal
1954
1952
8-d
2-s
Sword Game
Bay or brown 1976
Damascus
Bill and I
1964
1965
8-h
2-o
Franssica d'Amour
Bay 1990
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Thong
Bay 1964
Nantallah
Rough Shod
1953
1944
6-a
5-h
Big Apple Baby
Bay 1980
Tumiga
Chestnut 1964
Tudor Minstrel
Amiga
1944
1947
9-c
13-c
Perfect Hand
Grey 1972
Hand to Hand
Turn Ahead
1965
1967
13-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector3m,5m x 4m Bold Ruler5m x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Unnamed  
Excelebration (IRE)
Bay 2008
Exceed and Excel
Bay 2000
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Bay 1977
Northern Dancer
Pas de Nom
1961
1968
2-d
7-a
Razyana
Bay 1981
His Majesty
Spring Adieu
1968
1974
4-d
2-d
Patrona
Chestnut 1994
Lomond
Bay 1980
Northern Dancer
My Charmer
1961
1969
2-d
13-c
Gladiolus
Chestnut 1974
Watch Your Step
Back Britches
1956
1964
6-a
23-b
Sun Shower
Bay 2001
Indian Ridge
Chestnut 1985
Ahonoora
Chestnut 1975
Lorenzaccio
Helen Nichols
1965
1966
5-h
1-m
Hillbrow
Chestnut 1975
Swing Easy
Golden City
1968
1970
4-n
3-e
Miss Kemble
Bay 1994
Warning
Bay 1985
Known Fact
Slightly Dangerous
1977
1979
2-f
14-f
Sarah Siddons
Bay 1973
Le Levanstell
Mariel
1957
1968
7-e
9-a
Wild Hostess (AUS)
Bay 2009
Host
Chestnut 2000
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Nalees Flying Flag
1968
1975
3-l
9-f
Colonna Traiana
Chestnut 1993
Roy
Bay 1983
Fappiano
Adlibber
1977
1977
16-a
13-c
Propinada
Bay 1981
Prologo
Cota
1962
1973
5-h
22-a
Djel d'Amour
Brown 1999
Dehere
Bay 1991
Deputy Minister
Bay or brown 1979
Vice Regent
Mint Copy
1967
1970
10-c
10-a
Sister Dot
Bay 1985
Secretariat
Sword Game
1970
1976
2-s
2-o
Franssica d'Amour
Bay 1990
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Thong
1970
1964
13-c
5-h
Big Apple Baby
Bay 1980
Tumiga
Perfect Hand
1964
1972
13-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Northern Dancer5m,5m x Mr Prospectorx 4m,5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Unnamed  
Deep Field (AUS)
Bay 2010
Northern Meteor
Bay 2005
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Rolls
1977
1984
6-e
4-g
Explosive
Bay 1990
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Scuff
Chestnut 1979
Forli
Moccasin
1963
1963
3-b
5-h
Listen Here
Chestnut 2004
Elusive Quality
Bay 1993
Gone West
Bay 1984
Mr Prospector
Secrettame
1970
1978
13-c
2-f
Touch of Greatness
Bay 1986
Hero's Honor
Ivory Wand
1980
1973
1-s
13-c
Announce
Bay 1994
Military Plume
Bay 1983
Sir Tristram
Ultraviolet
1971
1972
6-e
10-d
Theme Song
Bay 1987
Sackford
Cotehele House
1980
1980
20>
9-c
Wild Hostess (AUS)
Bay 2009
Host
Chestnut 2000
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Nalees Flying Flag
1968
1975
3-l
9-f
Colonna Traiana
Chestnut 1993
Roy
Bay 1983
Fappiano
Adlibber
1977
1977
16-a
13-c
Propinada
Bay 1981
Prologo
Cota
1962
1973
5-h
22-a
Djel d'Amour
Brown 1999
Dehere
Bay 1991
Deputy Minister
Bay or brown 1979
Vice Regent
Mint Copy
1967
1970
10-c
10-a
Sister Dot
Bay 1985
Secretariat
Sword Game
1970
1976
2-s
2-o
Franssica d'Amour
Bay 1990
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Thong
1970
1964
13-c
5-h
Big Apple Baby
Bay 1980
Tumiga
Perfect Hand
1964
1972
13-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector5m,5m x 4m,5m Fappiano4f x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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TRANSPARENT (GB)Chestnut filly 1946 
Hyperion
Chestnut 1930
Gainsborough
Bay 1915
Bayardo
Bay 1906
Bay Ronald
Bay 1893
Hampton
Black Duchess
1872
1886
10-a
3-o
Galicia
Bay 1898
Galopin
Isoletta
1872
1891
3-i
10-a
Rosedrop
Chestnut 1907
St Frusquin
Brown 1893
St Simon
Isabel
1881
1879
11-c
22-b
Rosaline
Bay 1901
Trenton
Rosalys
1881
1894
18>
2-n
Selene
Bay 1919
Chaucer
Brown 1900
St Simon
Brown 1881
Galopin
St Angela
1872
1865
3-i
11-c
Canterbury Pilgrim
Chestnut 1893
Tristan
Pilgrimage
1878
1875
10-d
1-g
Serenissima
Bay 1913
Minoru
Brown 1906
Cyllene
Mother Siegel
1895
1897
9-e
5-c
Gondolette
Bay 1902
Loved One
Dongola
1883
1883
1-g
6-e
Invisible
Chestnut 1936
Asterus
Bay 1923
Teddy
Bay 1913
Ajax
Bay 1901
Flying Fox
Amie
1896
1893
7-d
2-i
Rondeau
Bay 1900
Bay Ronald
Doremi
1893
1894
3-o
2-n
Astrella
Bay 1912
Verdun
Chestnut 1906
Rabelais
Vellena
1900
1894
14-a
1-f
Saint Astra
Bay 1904
Ladas
St Celestra
1891
1897
1-l
9-f
Will o' the Wisp
Chestnut 1929
Hurry On
Chestnut 1913
Marcovil
Chestnut 1903
Marco
Lady Villikins
1892
1885
3-k
12-c
Tout Suite
Chestnut 1904
Sainfoin
Star
1887
1887
2-g
2-d
William's Pride
Bay 1911
William the Third
Bay 1898
St Simon
Gravity
1881
1884
11-c
2-e
Stop Her
Chestnut 1903
Carbine
Catcher
1885
1896
2-h
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Bay Ronald4m x 5f Galopin5f,5m x St Simon5m,4m x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 2:07pm
Fighting Sun has done well in 2017/18 as a first season stallion.

He's advertised at $15,400 including GST, however the match comes up with 20/20 Gp1 Goldmine ratingwhich means the stud will offer "special incentives" should you book.

I'd email Phil Marshall or Adam Henry at Sun Stud, say the match is a 20/20, and ask for their best price.
You can further weigh up your options after they respond. 
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Unnamed  
Eurozone (AUS)
Chestnut 2010
Northern Meteor
Bay 2005
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Rolls
1977
1984
6-e
4-g
Explosive
Bay 1990
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Scuff
Chestnut 1979
Forli
Moccasin
1963
1963
3-b
5-h
Miss Vandal
Bay 1998
Don't Say Halo
Bay or brown 1982
Halo
Bay or brown 1969
Hail to Reason
Cosmah
1958
1953
4-n
2-d
Never Babble
Bay or brown 1976
Advocator
Never Hula
1963
1969
12-c
1-s
Zabatac
Bay 1990
Zabaleta
Bay 1983
Shecky Greene
Winver
1970
1972
13-c
9-b
Christmas Gift
Brown 1981
Arch Sculptor
Santa Baby
1973
1966
1-l
20>
Wild Hostess (AUS)
Bay 2009
Host
Chestnut 2000
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Nalees Flying Flag
1968
1975
3-l
9-f
Colonna Traiana
Chestnut 1993
Roy
Bay 1983
Fappiano
Adlibber
1977
1977
16-a
13-c
Propinada
Bay 1981
Prologo
Cota
1962
1973
5-h
22-a
Djel d'Amour
Brown 1999
Dehere
Bay 1991
Deputy Minister
Bay or brown 1979
Vice Regent
Mint Copy
1967
1970
10-c
10-a
Sister Dot
Bay 1985
Secretariat
Sword Game
1970
1976
2-s
2-o
Franssica d'Amour
Bay 1990
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Thong
1970
1964
13-c
5-h
Big Apple Baby
Bay 1980
Tumiga
Perfect Hand
1964
1972
13-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector5m x 4m,5m Fappiano4f x 5m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Unnamed  
Fighting Sun (AUS)
Bay 2011
Northern Meteor
Bay 2005
Encosta de Lago
Bay 1993
Fairy King
Bay 1982
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
1961
1975
2-d
5-h
Shoal Creek
Chestnut 1988
Star Way
Rolls
1977
1984
6-e
4-g
Explosive
Bay 1990
Fappiano
Bay 1977
Mr Prospector
Killaloe
1970
1970
13-c
16-a
Scuff
Chestnut 1979
Forli
Moccasin
1963
1963
3-b
5-h
Irish Darling
Chestnut 2001
Ivory's Irish
Chestnut 1991
Best Western
Chestnut 1978
Bletchingly
Grease Paint
1970
1970
7-a
2-b
Engagement
Chestnut 1974
Northfields
Royal News
1968
1965
4-r
13-a
Sandy Darling
Chestnut 1994
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Thong
1970
1964
13-c
5-h
Evening Line
Bay 1986
Sir Tristram
Balmereve
1971
1981
6-e
C2
Wild Hostess (AUS)
Bay 2009
Host
Chestnut 2000
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Nalees Flying Flag
1968
1975
3-l
9-f
Colonna Traiana
Chestnut 1993
Roy
Bay 1983
Fappiano
Adlibber
1977
1977
16-a
13-c
Propinada
Bay 1981
Prologo
Cota
1962
1973
5-h
22-a
Djel d'Amour
Brown 1999
Dehere
Bay 1991
Deputy Minister
Bay or brown 1979
Vice Regent
Mint Copy
1967
1970
10-c
10-a
Sister Dot
Bay 1985
Secretariat
Sword Game
1970
1976
2-s
2-o
Franssica d'Amour
Bay 1990
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Thong
1970
1964
13-c
5-h
Big Apple Baby
Bay 1980
Tumiga
Perfect Hand
1964
1972
13-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector5m,5m x 4m,5m Fappiano4f x 5m Geiger Counter4f x 4f


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Second Chance Second Chance wrote:

Fighting Sun has done well in 2017/18 as a first season stallion.

He's advertised at $15,400 including GST, however the match comes up with 20/20 Gp1 Goldmine ratingwhich means the stud will offer "special incentives" should you book.  I'd email Phil Marshall or Adam Henry at Sun Stud, say the match is a 20/20, and ask for their best price.
You can further weigh up your options after they respond.

Another advantage in visiting Sun Stud is that rather than paying the service fee after a 45 positive test, it's only payable following the delivery of a live foal.

Don't know what the story is at Newgate Farm where Deep Field and Eurozone stand.
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Extreme Choice might be an extreme choice but I like him.

Unnamed  
Extreme Choice (AUS)
Chestnut 2013
Not a Single Doubt
Bay 2001
Redoute's Choice
Bay 1996
Danehill
Bay 1986
Danzig
Razyana
1977
1981
7-a
2-d
Shantha's Choice
Bay 1992
Canny Lad
Dancing Show
1987
1983
14>
8-f
Singles Bar
Chestnut 1991
Rory's Jester
Chestnut 1982
Crown Jester
Rory's Rocket
1978
1973
13-e
1-m
Easy Date
Bay 1977
Grand Chaudiere
Scampering
1968
1970
19-b
20-a
Extremely
Bay 2005
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Nalees Flying Flag
1968
1975
3-l
9-f
Going to Extremes
Bay 1994
Nasty and Bold
Bay 1975
Naskra
College Bold
1967
1968
3-e
1-s
Ole Bow Wower
Bay 1981
Ole Bob Bowers
Sweet Endeavour
1963
1965
4-c
12-c
Wild Hostess (AUS)
Bay 2009
Host
Chestnut 2000
Hussonet
Chestnut 1991
Mr Prospector
Bay 1970
Raise a Native
Gold Digger
1961
1962
8-f
13-c
Sacahuista
Bay 1984
Raja Baba
Nalees Flying Flag
1968
1975
3-l
9-f
Colonna Traiana
Chestnut 1993
Roy
Bay 1983
Fappiano
Adlibber
1977
1977
16-a
13-c
Propinada
Bay 1981
Prologo
Cota
1962
1973
5-h
22-a
Djel d'Amour
Brown 1999
Dehere
Bay 1991
Deputy Minister
Bay or brown 1979
Vice Regent
Mint Copy
1967
1970
10-c
10-a
Sister Dot
Bay 1985
Secretariat
Sword Game
1970
1976
2-s
2-o
Franssica d'Amour
Bay 1990
Geiger Counter
Bay 1982
Mr Prospector
Thong
1970
1964
13-c
5-h
Big Apple Baby
Bay 1980
Tumiga
Perfect Hand
1964
1972
13-c
7>
 Ancestor duplications:Mr Prospector4m x 4m,5m Hussonet3f x 3m


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 3:06pm
Thinking of soundness, would you really want to add 2 more lines of Mr P to her own 3 or would they be distant enough?
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 4:29pm
He's a funny one Gay with many bred with him in the 2nd line going well and showing no signs of troubles.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 4:30pm
Good question Gay, and I suspect there's no definitive answer.  However if both sire and dam were sound and a "suspect" stallion is four or five generations back in the progeny, I'd have no qualms about the doubling up.

Deep Field was sound so no problem there.  Can't speak for Eurozone.

Fighting Sun tore a suspensory ligament but imo that's not genetic (as distinct from DSLD in older horses).  For example, people here will know that our stakes-winning 3yo Money Maher recently sustained a torn suspensory, however he's by a sire that throws strong stock and is out of a mare whose family is noted for soundness and durability.  Simple case of being quickly retrained to avoid getting on heels causing severe impact to the cushioning ligament.

We had a Host gelding and he too was bred to be a sprinter/miler but still needed 1600-2000m.  So that's probably where the middle distance aspect of Wild Hostess comes from, and perhaps highlights the need for some genuine speed in her matings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 4:40pm
I suspect Wild Hostess was tried at a middle distance just to try something. She showed very little beyond a mile. 




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:21pm
Her race at Canberra 1600 24.415 she flew home 4th and would have won but jock hopped off and said he had put her behind 2 horses he thought were travelling and they weren’t. Had to try and pull her out and get going again near the post. Started fav at next start as a result.
Qbeyan next start 2000m she flew home running on late down the outside. Ran 6/15. Made up a lot of ground.
Canberra 1600 next start, short price again but jockey, who knew her, hopped off and said spell her, something amiss.
Last prep she was doing good times at trackwork, trainer expected her to win, she didn’t put it into her race so we retired her. Lost interest, she was always a bit field shy and ran better from outside barriers. Same old bad luck stories everyone has at one time or another. Got slaughtered at Sapphire when she should have led in the wet and won easy, but urposely held back for a last crack at them, and so it goes. Just a bit better than she looks on paper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:30pm
The stallions u have here are the exact ones I initially came up with plus Giants Steps 😊
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:34pm
Wonder what that big dose of Hussonet might produce, has anybody else tried it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sister Dot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 8:53pm
Thanks for your input, some great food for thought🐴 😊
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:29am
Looking at the family, the first thing we notice is that it is not a highly commercial one.  Most of the winners are of fairly moderate races so there would appear little benefit in breeding for a sales ring.  In my view, the idea of looking at proven stallions is a distinct advantage in a long term breeding plan for the mare.  If we look at the more successful family members, we see that close inbreeding has not been a strategy that has worked, so it is not a strategy that I would be recommending in this case.  Perhaps the best runner of late has been a filly by I Am Invincible called Balle D'Or who was placed in Melbourne. This pedigree has relatively little inbreeding, and focuses on the Northern Dancer influence, so maybe breeding away from Mr P could be a key in Australia for this family.

A few stallions that I would be considering in no particular order, and without an in-depth investigation, and sticking in NSW as it would seem prudent to travel as little as possible.

Casino Prince - no longer fashionable but can get a good runner and regular winners.  The pedigree does bring in another line of Mr P, although through a daughter to balance the all male influence through the mare's pedigree

Al Maher - another stallion that is well priced considering his results on the track.  Again, a well balanced looking mating and I would suggest a solid racing prospect.  Probably my preferred option on face value

Testa Rossa - again, a wonderful stallion now getting on a bit, but capable of producing good progeny.  This mating probably introduces more speed than the others, and the mare, Thong who obviously has had success with Mr P.

Myboycharlie - He had a great impact when first coming here, but maybe his age and his shuttling has affected his performance a bit.  Still, a good sire and a reasonable option for the mare.  The pedigree  looks a little more hit and miss than some of the others, but we have some interesting influences including Thong a little further back, Raise A Native, the sire of Mr P so maybe this is the way to best utilise this influence, Never Bend and of course, Northern Dancer.

Like most, I am probably unconvinced that the mare was a staying type, and it would be important to consider her physical type in the assessment especially given this query.  As one of our older members once posted wisely, all horse will run two miles, it is just that some do it faster than others.  In the case of this mare running over some distance, we have to consider that she may have been running against a field of relatively slow horses rather than quality stayers.  If that is the case, the idea of ensuring stamina in the mating is something that can be considered instead of looking at speed influences in particular.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 9:15am
Actually Progold in the family where you do find stakes winners they are inbred usually to a mare.  Ie the suggestion of using Thong and Mr Prospector as both have links to other branches with a female with crosses.  

I agree this mare isn't commercial though I think they are breeding to race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 10:13am
Nasrullah, Hyperion, Mumtaz Begum, Nearco, Miss Dogwood, War Relic, Discovery, Count Fleet are just some of the inbreeding.  Not close inbreeding but crossed usually 4th or 5th generation.  Also they are looking for speed and often speed is through inbreeding and stamina though outcross.  Mind you if you inbreed to a speed machine you might see it go further than you think and inbreeding to Sir Tristram etc can see you get a sprinter so there is no set rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 10:38am
To be honest, I didn't look that far back into the stakes winners, as those were all overseas and the quality of the races they won are probably questionable.  Many Listed races in the US are classified because of the stakes money, which was the equivalent of a Sydney metropolitan race.  I was looking at horses like Southern Shimmer and Balle D'Or which are the best of the locals.
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