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4 Corners - Aquanita

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mc41 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mc41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:18pm
Surprised to c O'Brien appear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:24pm
No Walkley Awards for that lot.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acacia alba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:26pm
this will put the cat among the pigeons, but, basically its what I have said for ages.   racing needs to get its head out of the sand and take note, and act to improve the whole image. 
maybe these studs who breed hundreds should chuck in a few pennies to care for the useless ones they have bred ??? 
dunno what the answer is , but if things dont change for the better, its a down hill slope in this age of PC. 
animals before people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:27pm
45min of my life I’ll never get back. Asked a couple of ok questions - got ridiculous answers. I hope Giles has some other work lined up.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

this will put the cat among the pigeons, but, basically its what I have said for ages.   racing needs to get its head out of the sand and take note, and act to improve the whole image. 
maybe these studs who breed hundreds should chuck in a few pennies to care for the useless ones they have bred ??? 
dunno what the answer is , but if things dont change for the better, its a down hill slope in this age of PC. 


Make all equestrian sports thoroughbred only.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Overseer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:29pm
The RSPCA is a joke. The Chief Scientist of the RSPCA conveniently or negligently omitted to cite a reviewed and published article by Dr Meredith Flash that exhaustively followed and traced "wastage"in thoroughbreds. Dr Flash's results didn't suit the RSPCAs agenda. Why wouldn't the RSPCA act on those multiple complaints against Bruce Akers at Sunbury?
Watch the commission go on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:33pm
As it should be AA. The industry is archaic - bloody dinosaur. For what - to encourage gambling - not a good enough reason for systemic animal cruelty imo. Then to boot they have out of control corruption at the highest levels to even making the gambling bit a joke. At least pokies / casinos are not corrupt & don't lead to animal cruelty horror shows. Gamblers still get their fix , governments still get their cut . Time to wind it back - won't be missed in 10 years - part of history !
Give peace a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonjour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:34pm
I turned it off when DOB came on, .......please, don't insult what intelligence I have left, Next thing, Peter Foster will be appointed integrity commissioner. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Discohips23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

I turned it off when DOB came on, .......please, don't insult what intelligence I have left, Next thing, Peter Foster will be appointed integrity commissioner. 
Spot On. Although I was disappointed not to see Kavanagh pop out of his hiding spot from behind DOB's skirt and make an appearance tonight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:48pm
Racing Victoria's chief executive Giles Thompson was far from convincing. Not very impressive , in my opinion. I hope he proves me wrong and can shake the whole industry up ...Stewards, trainers , horse welfare ,penalties, etc. What I did find interesting was how the small trainers are falling away, due to no track riders.  The car leading horses can be dangerous  so why doesn't the racing authorities in each state either install walkers at tracks to help these smaller country trainers or a cheaper way would be to have joggers ,like the trotting trainers have . ..Authorities have to think also about the small country towns and what race day does for economy and social aspect for the towns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:50pm
Just encourage gambling on non-animal events. Racing Industry will never resolve the wastage concerns - nor the greyhound game. Sports Betting taking over with the young ones anyway - most couldnt give two hoots about betting on horses / greyhounds. Pokies / casinos / on-line poker / 24-7 sports - plenty to bet on. Never forget the racing game is put on for one thing - punting. Everything else in the game is secondary to that. So wind back the demand & the industry will gradually die.
Give peace a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivarchi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:51pm
Horrible blow to Michael Brissendon's own credibility to have Danny O'Brien as a sympathetic figure.

As Tontonon said, definately no Walkleys in that report.

On the Integrity parts:

V'landy's at his arrogant best.
Thompson came off terrible as usual and just an exec on a paypacket before his next paypacket elsewhere.
Martin and Horowitz on usual vanity trips.
Ellerton the only one who genuinely put his head up and did the show for the bettterment of the industry imo.

Overall, a waste of 45 minutes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anabel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by Discohips23 Discohips23 wrote:

Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

I turned it off when DOB came on, .......please, don't insult what intelligence I have left, Next thing, Peter Foster will be appointed integrity commissioner. 
Spot On. Although I was disappointed not to see Kavanagh pop out of his hiding spot from behind DOB's skirt and make an appearance tonight.


Hahaha so true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Overseer Overseer wrote:

The RSPCA is a joke. The Chief Scientist of the RSPCA conveniently or negligently omitted to cite a reviewed and published article by Dr Meredith Flash that exhaustively followed and traced "wastage"in thoroughbreds. Dr Flash's results didn't suit the RSPCAs agenda. Why wouldn't the RSPCA act on those multiple complaints against Bruce Akers at Sunbury?

I'd like to read that article if you have a link. It has been discussed on TBV previously and from memory it lacked detail and didn't address the realities of wastage (eg what happened to the 35% of horses which didn't get to the track) at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Discohips23 Discohips23 wrote:

Originally posted by Bonjour Bonjour wrote:

I turned it off when DOB came on, .......please, don't insult what intelligence I have left, Next thing, Peter Foster will be appointed integrity commissioner. 
Spot On. Although I was disappointed not to see Kavanagh pop out of his hiding spot from behind DOB's skirt and make an appearance tonight.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:05am
Here is my review.

1. Not sure what Brian Martin brought to the story, except to show that owners are more worried about trophies than the actual horse.
2. That CEO for Racing Victoria, is either one of the most naïve, stupid and inept or one of the most corrupt people I have ever seen in a senior management position. To say he can not comment on a complaint made to the stewards by Ellerton, about race day activities at Aquanita because there was no evidence, is just completely moronic.
3. O'Brien had one legite point, that he did seem to get treated differently to Smerdon, and again the CEO is totally useless in his explanation.
4. The country trainers complaining about the horse alongside the car to train, are kidding themselves. If you can not afford a trackwork rider to ride your horse of a morning, then you need to find other work, as V'Landys said this is not an entitlement, you do actually have to make your business viable, and part of the operating costs for a horse training business is track work riders.
5. For the CEO to say that returning Smerdon's phone to him at Flemington on the day the foreman and Smerdon were being questioned, is one of the most corrupt statements from a senior official I have ever heard. As has been stated, centrelink here we come.
6. If both racing officials and RSPCA, were able to hand out stiffer penalties then maybe we could see a change in behaviour.
7. I agree that there are too many horses bred in Australia every year, but the breeding industry has some well connected participants, so nothing will change there.

Over all one of the worst Four Corners I have seen. If you are going to go hard about something, then go hard or go home. The story was as far as I could tell, piss weak!   
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Discohips23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 12:18am
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

Here is my review.

1. Not sure what Brian Martin brought to the story, except to show that owners are more worried about trophies than the actual horse.
2. That CEO for Racing Victoria, is either one of the most naïve, stupid and inept or one of the most corrupt people I have ever seen in a senior management position. To say he can not comment on a complaint made to the stewards by Ellerton, about race day activities at Aquanita because there was no evidence, is just completely moronic.
3. O'Brien had one legite point, that he did seem to get treated differently to Smerdon, and again the CEO is totally useless in his explanation.
4. The country trainers complaining about the horse alongside the car to train, are kidding themselves. If you can not afford a trackwork rider to ride your horse of a morning, then you need to find other work, as V'Landys said this is not an entitlement, you do actually have to make your business viable, and part of the operating costs for a horse training business is track work riders.
5. For the CEO to say that returning Smerdon's phone to him at Flemington on the day the foreman and Smerdon were being questioned, is one of the most corrupt statements from a senior official I have ever heard. As has been stated, centrelink here we come.
6. If both racing officials and RSPCA, were able to hand out stiffer penalties then maybe we could see a change in behaviour.
7. I agree that there are too many horses bred in Australia every year, but the breeding industry has some well connected participants, so nothing will change there.

Over all one of the worst Four Corners I have seen. If you are going to go hard about something, then go hard or go home. The story was as far as I could tell, piss weak!   
Yep, pretty much sums it up......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:02am
Just watched it. A fizzer as far as the doping of horses goes. The program tried to cover too much and as a result the biggest scandal in modern racing was lost. No questions about cheating other trainers and owners and defrauding punters, why the race fixing legislation isn't being used, and why racing tolerates repeat offenders.

Haven't watched 4Corners for years so don't know if it's gone soft but why Brissenden didn't press Thompson for a reason for stewards giving Smerdon his phone back only he knows. Allowing him to faff about hindsight and support for stewards was pathetic rubbish. Thompson and Bailey need to be grilled by the Racing Minister and the facts of that decision properly determined. Without proper explanation it appears to be a case of incompetence at best.

The wastage issue was well done given the limited time available imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote goyougoodthing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:08am
Why is it seemingly so outrageous for horses to be killed humanely and used for petfood or even human consumption)?
sheep, cattle, kangaroos = largely acceptable
horses = scandalous
Given that the animals are killed humanely and the meat satisfies demand that would be supplied by other species - what’s the difference? Does the attempt to race a horse render it unthinkable to slaughter for meat?
In terms of numbers, the yarding at an average sheep sale obviously far exceeds the total annual thoroughbred “wastage”. So, if people have a problem with killing animals for meat there are far bigger targets than thoroughbred “wastage”.
Discuss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:19am
I thought that, good thing when the lady was talking about the issue, and I think to isolate racing, as the only guilty party here was a bit rich.

What about the people who abandon cats and dogs on the side of the highway, and then they roam the country wild, and kill the native animal population. What, do the RSPCA want to ban people from breeding dogs and cats?

Our society is one of wastage, when it comes to animals, it is appalling and should not happen, but racing is not alone here, and as I said before, if you are going to go after one, you go after them all, so make no mistake, the politically correct, self-regarding types, who think that all animals should roam free, will not stop at thoroughbreds, or greyhounds or standarbreds. This part of the story is why the ABC is being touted as bias.

They are coming for your guinea pigs, rabbits, goldfish and other pets.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:20am
Originally posted by Gay3 Gay3 wrote:

Not long to lift off LOL

Barriers opened but most of the field either failed to jump or just went around for a leisurely canter unfortunately. Jockey Brissenden failed to apply the whip when required. He might be better for the run but imo a new rider with more experience and interest is required if/when there's another expose'. 

if the program was a racehorse I wouldn't want to be on it at its next run. It's either out of form or no longer up to the class required.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:24am
Originally posted by goyougoodthing goyougoodthing wrote:

Why is it seemingly so outrageous for horses to be killed humanely and used for petfood or even human consumption)?
sheep, cattle, kangaroos = largely acceptable
horses = scandalous
Given that the animals are killed humanely and the meat satisfies demand that would be supplied by other species - what’s the difference? Does the attempt to race a horse render it unthinkable to slaughter for meat?
In terms of numbers, the yarding at an average sheep sale obviously far exceeds the total annual thoroughbred “wastage”. So, if people have a problem with killing animals for meat there are far bigger targets than thoroughbred “wastage”.
Discuss.

Been discussed ad nauseam. There's a huge difference between animals farmed for food and animals raised and used for human pleasure then discarded without care. V'landys hit the nail on the head in regard to heads in the sand attitudes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:29am
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I thought that, good thing when the lady was talking about the issue, and I think to isolate racing, as the only guilty party here was a bit rich.

What about the people who abandon cats and dogs on the side of the highway, and then they roam the country wild, and kill the native animal population. What, do the RSPCA want to ban people from breeding dogs and cats?

Our society is one of wastage, when it comes to animals, it is appalling and should not happen, but racing is not alone here, and as I said before, if you are going to go after one, you go after them all, so make no mistake, the politically correct, self-regarding types, who think that all animals should roam free, will not stop at thoroughbreds, or greyhounds or standarbreds. This part of the story is why the ABC is being touted as bias.

They are coming for your guinea pigs, rabbits, goldfish and other pets.
Bias because a program about racing issues didn't get into the complexities and apparent hypocrisies of animal ethics in general? You're kidding. They'd need a mini-series and a team of 100 to cover all the problems and issues. If they were "going after" racing I'd say they did a very poor job of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goyougoodthing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:30am
What exactly is that difference? It is just a mindset and nothing to do with animal welfare.
Would it make a difference if we bred these horses specifically for meat but also gave them an opportunity to first become racehorses if they could run fast?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:33am
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I thought that, good thing when the lady was talking about the issue....

FYI,  the lady was Dr Bidda Jones,  Chief Science and Strategy Officer at RSPCA Australia.  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote linghi11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:43am
Originally posted by goyougoodthing goyougoodthing wrote:

Why is it seemingly so outrageous for horses to be killed humanely and used for petfood or even human consumption)?
sheep, cattle, kangaroos = largely acceptable
horses = scandalous
Given that the animals are killed humanely and the meat satisfies demand that would be supplied by other species - what’s the difference? Does the attempt to race a horse render it unthinkable to slaughter for meat?
In terms of numbers, the yarding at an average sheep sale obviously far exceeds the total annual thoroughbred “wastage”. So, if people have a problem with killing animals for meat there are far bigger targets than thoroughbred “wastage”.
Discuss.


Animal activist leaders like targets with money and thoroughbred racing is the holy grail for them. They fudge the numbers, sensationalise the smallest things, and use disinformation, while bleeding heart morons buy it.

To add to this issue, racing is run by some of the thickest specimens to walk upright, so instead of educating and being open about positives about horse welfare, 50,000 employment, money pumped back into the economy, they just twiddle their thumbs and offer “no comment” and catch-phrases with no meaning.

Where is the outcry about show animals where litters are knocked on the head if they don’t have some ridiculous but desirable physical trait? General treatment of farm animals? Crushing of male chicks? Caging bears and harvesting their bile? Brumbied are being culled? Racing pales in comparison and whereas it needs to do better, it’s not a patch on the other issues.
to the victor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:47am
Originally posted by goyougoodthing goyougoodthing wrote:

What exactly is that difference? It is just a mindset and nothing to do with animal welfare.
Would it make a difference if we bred these horses specifically for meat but also gave them an opportunity to first become racehorses if they could run fast?

'What' is a mindset? The difference is obvious but ignoring the obvious racing is a wealthy sport, it can and should look after the animals it uses to make its money. There is no excuse for not doing so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 1:50am
Originally posted by goyougoodthing goyougoodthing wrote:

Why is it seemingly so outrageous for horses to be killed humanely and used for petfood or even human consumption)?
sheep, cattle, kangaroos = largely acceptable
horses = scandalous
Given that the animals are killed humanely and the meat satisfies demand that would be supplied by other species - what’s the difference? Does the attempt to race a horse render it unthinkable to slaughter for meat?
In terms of numbers, the yarding at an average sheep sale obviously far exceeds the total annual thoroughbred “wastage”. So, if people have a problem with killing animals for meat there are far bigger targets than thoroughbred “wastage”.
Discuss.
You raise a coherent argument, I've said in the past that while factory farming is a thing this is not an issue of magnitude.

If you wanted to be machiavellian you can bring up hala and khoser butchering and watch them squirm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote monty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 2:04am
Not sure why we had to go down memory lane with Brian Martin and his part ownership of FOO and then to see the replay and him call the race? Nice trophy Brian.
We also know now that Ralph does not match his cravat to his tie.
The only one who didn’t sound like a goose was Mathew Ellerton.
Fancy getting Danny O’Brien on to talk about injustices! Mate, you got off on a technicality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 2:09am
Nothing coherent or clever about ignoring problems in your own backyard simply because similar or worse problems exist elsewhere. Most adults have no problem differentiating between acts of slaughtering a chook for food and discarding a pet/working dog because you no longer want it for example. 
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