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4 Corners - Aquanita

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3blindmice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:28am
Originally posted by JudgeHolden JudgeHolden wrote:

 
I also recall the last time 4 Corners did an expose on racing in general. That was the greyhound live baiting scandal, which bizarrely also had some in here complaining of “lefty” bias.

Bizarrely? Very droll Judge. I doubt animal welfare is a left/right issue myself but the basic wisdom behind the assumption rings true, if you get my drift.

Anecdotally greyhound racing "wastage" is, sadly, still a huge issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:53am
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

How many people that work for the ABC are right wing?
How many of those right wingers are philosophically right wing and not just neo liberals?


The only thing that matters is they report the truth.

What part of propaganda did you not understand?
And even if they reported the truth that's not good enough for the left so I'm going to hold them to their own standard.


Your blind ideology is showing. Looked up the backgrounds of the ABC Board and the outcomes of those bias enquiries yet or are you afraid of the truth like most neocons?
You're lack of education is showing, what part of an ideology born out of trotskyism is physiologically right wing? Of course spiritual bolsheviks are afraid of the truth.

Got an equitable list of right wingers working for the ABC yet?


It is not really a left or right issue. The ABC is fundamentally unbiased and a wonderful institution that the commercial networks go to to poach the talent they can not develope themselves.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:56am
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

You're lack of education is showing, what part of an ideology born out of trotskyism is physiologically right wing? Of course spiritual bolsheviks are afraid of the truth.

Got an equitable list of right wingers working for the ABC yet?

No doubt the first two sentences make sense in your odd little conspiratorial world of us and them, black and white. 

I have no idea of what an "equitable list" is (the implication being baseless nonsense to begin with) or how you would expect to compile such a list but here's an idea you can have for nix. I suspect that Nick Minchin and other conservatives have at some point created files with newspaper clippings etc of supposed ABC bias and lists of possible dangerous ABC lefties who need to be excised. You could always start there and use the exclusion approach - ie it would be a reasonable assumption that anyone not on his hit list must be of re "right", or at least moderately conservative-friendly. Perhaps putting all ABC staff on the rack might help? If nothing else it would punish them for their nasty leftie habits.

There's plenty of available discussion on the topic if you have a real interest, some which specifically addresses the point you appear to be trying to make. Specific names of ABC staff are mentioned if that floats your boat. All it takes is some googling and a few hours of reading and the your fog will be swept away. Seems ideology and ignorance are regular bedfellows for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:27am
Neoconservatism came from the left, this is undisputed.
There was significant extrotskyite element within the foundation of neoconservatism, this is undisputed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:29am
You read the wrong books.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:34am
I like the nature docos on the ABC djebel but when it comes to politics they are partisan hacks. If all the talent was right ring you wouldn't like it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:36am
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

I like the nature docos on the ABC djebel but when it comes to politics they are partisan hacks. If all the talent was right ring you wouldn't like it.


Journalism should not be left or right, they should simply be delivering the facts and letting you and I decide what we think.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:38am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

You read the wrong books.
You're wrong about this, look it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:39am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

I like the nature docos on the ABC djebel but when it comes to politics they are partisan hacks. If all the talent was right ring you wouldn't like it.


Journalism should not be left or right, they should simply be delivering the facts and letting you and I decide what we think.

Journalists are not capable of this, they should drop the pretense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skippy123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 7:21am
If this is true (I personally disagree) then why only rail against the ABC? Take a lot around at Racing journalism- majority have an agenda (because that’s where their wage comes from plus they are part of the ‘in’ boys club) and are totally unashamed about it...
Real journalism is a dying breed, but there are still brilliant investigative journalists with integrity (not the kind RV spout!) out there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Overseer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 9:36am
Like Ray Thomas Skip.....hehehehehe
Watch the commission go on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

You read the wrong books.

Doesn't read books is far more likely
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SHOVHOG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:27pm
I love when people talk about left and right. The fact that you guys think you have a choice in 2 different parties is a laugh. It's an illusion and simply is a representation of the right brain and left brain and or the left hand path or right hand path. Brush up on your history and gnostics and you might learn something.

But I digress
" In gambling the many must lose in order for the few to win"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

The ABC is a left wing propaganda outlet.
Only a left winger would dispute this.

No fair minded person believes this.

They report the facts and tend not to sensationalise the trivial. 

Somebody else has added why should wastage be included, Well why shouldn't it ? I agree with yet somebody else, Perhaps racing is so on the nose it needs more than one 50 minute expose to cover half its issues.

Wastage
Corruption
drugs
welfare
Cheap labour


More importantly (to my mind) - Live Export & Greyhound Industry Cruelty. Both those alone justifies the public spend imo
Give peace a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:05pm
The ABC show a lefty bias in most of their comedy programs. Shows like the Gruen Transfer don't normally show too much balance. Q&A not much better !
Give peace a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:08pm
I also thought the much publicised 3 week expose to out Trump on 4 Corners was as weak as water.
Give peace a chance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3blindmice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by SHOVHOG SHOVHOG wrote:

I love when people talk about left and right. The fact that you guys think you have a choice in 2 different parties is a laugh. It's an illusion and simply is a representation of the right brain and left brain and or the left hand path or right hand path. Brush up on your history and gnostics and you might learn something.

But I digress

Yes. Very little difference between the extremists at either end of that nominal and quite arbitrary spectrum. Hitler or Stalin? Both abominations. Interesting interview by Fidler on the excellent ABC radio program Conversations yesterday. His guest had researched Hitler's youth. Google the podcast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


The ABC show a lefty bias in most of their comedy programs. Shows like the Gruen Transfer don't normally show too much balance. Q&A not much better !


There is not much doubt entertainers generally speaking are left wingers.

If we are all honest with ourselves a bad left wingers is better than a good right winger.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isaac soloman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:20am
heard the grab for this show on tonight.

first impression, rich, powerful people/owners pulling the strings of the stewards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote skippy123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:37am
Horseracing insiders raise questions about Aquanita investigation

Four Corners / By Michael Brissenden, Wayne Harley and Lucy Carter
Posted 3 hours ago, updated3 hours ago
Horse trainer Robert Smerdon.
IMAGE Horse trainer Robert Smerdon (pictured) and Greg and Denise Nelligan were handed life bans.(ABC News: Nicola Gage)
Racing Victoria has been accused of not acting soon enough to uncover a recent doping scandal described by a judge as one of the "darkest and longest chapters in Australian turf history".

Serious questions have been raised about the investigation process that eventually led to charges.

Earlier this year Racing Victoria banned stablehand Greg Nelligan, his wife Denise Nelligan and senior Victorian trainer Robert Smerdon for life for administering endurance enhancing bicarb doping treatment to horses just before races.

All three worked for the Aquanita Racing stables.

Five others were also penalised.

The racing disciplinary board described it as a "long-running systematic conspiracy to try and obtain an unfair advantage in well over a hundred races in seven years".

Racing Victoria says the successful prosecution of those involved proves it is policing the sport appropriately.

But trainers, commentators and punters have told the ABC's Four Corners program that Smerdon's previous transgressions with the integrity system, combined with an unusual long-running winning streak for Aquanita horses should have seen them act earlier.

A transcript of the initial investigation obtained by Four Corners also shows that on the day the doping conspiracy was uncovered, racing stewards did not forensically examine Smerdon's phone records.

After a cursory examination the stewards gave the trainer his phone back and allowed him to leave the racecourse with it.

CHAIRMAN: Mr Smerdon, obviously we don't want you to have the inconvenience of not having your phone. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us before -

MR SMERDON: No, nothing I can offer, no.

The stewards' decision to hand Smerdon back his phone is one that has puzzled many, given the rich digital record revealed by Nelligan's phone.

But it's a choice Racing Victoria's chief executive Giles Thompson told Four Corners he's comfortable with.

"As I say, we have the luxury of hindsight, he didn't have the luxury of hindsight," he said.

"I'm very comfortable that our stewards and our investigators are highly skilled and highly experienced. They deal with the facts and the circumstances that they face before them at the time."

How a doping conspiracy was uncovered

Smerdon's winning streak finally came to an end on October 7 last year. A big crowd had turned out at Flemington to watch the legendary Winx line up to win her 21st race. But what happened to another horse in a swab box that day would shake racing to its core.

Aquanita stablehand Nelligan was caught attempting to administer an endurance-boosting bicarb paste to the Smerdon-trained mare Lovani.

Race day treatments are strictly prohibited.

Nelligan initially said he was acting alone but his phone held a record of 70,000 texts.

The messages revealed the systematic doping of horses over at least seven years by a group linked to the Aquanita Racing stable.

The texts between Nelligan and Smerdon spoke of instructions for giving horses bicarb "top ups" and convinced the judge that both Smerdon and Nelligen were the driving force behind the conspiracy.

The scandal shocked many in the industry including Bryan Martin, who for more than 40 years was one of the nation's most respected race callers and the voice of racing in Victoria.

"I just shook my head. I thought, I can't believe this has happened. And under the nose of the stewards too. Why wasn't something detected?" he said.

"You know, the signs were there within the industry, the signs were there. The alarm bells were going off. And the fact that over 100 races have been affected — that's come out in the evidence, that blows me away. I can't believe that. "

Cobalt investigation shows different treatment

The Aquanita scandal comes shortly after a three-year fight by another group of Victorian trainers to clear their names over charges of knowingly administering their horses with cobalt, a suspected blood-boosting agent.

Danny O'Brien has told Four Corners he believes the treatment he received from the stewards was tougher and far more thorough than the polite approach taken with Smerdon.

When the stewards raided O'Brien's stables in 2015, he says they locked him down for two days and went through every piece of digital technology they could find.

"They came in with an IT forensic team, they imaged my phone, they imaged my tablet, they imaged every computer in the office including our server so they had every email, every text that… for many, many years previous that had been transmitted by me or by anyone in my office," he said.

O'Brien was initially given a four-year ban from racing. He appealed and after a lengthy, multi-million dollar legal battle he was cleared of the charge of knowingly administering cobalt.

Racing Victoria dismissed O'Brien's complaints about how he was treated. Mr Thompson told Four Corners the Cobalt and Aquanita cases were different.

"The investigations were completely different, the cases are completely different, and to line the two up and compare one to the other, isn't an appropriate way of considering it." he said.

However, both centred around the alleged administration of banned substances to racehorses.

The fact that in the Aquanita case it took seven years for the fraud to be uncovered only serves to highlight failures in the integrity system.

Ralph Horowitz, a respected racing form analyst known as Racetrack Ralphy, said the signs were there.

"The facts are Robert Smerdon's team were winning races through the roof ahead of market expectations," he said.

"Robert Smerdon had transgressions that are on the record in 2012, in 2013 and in other times and, relatively, [he was] hit with light fines. In hindsight, they look very, very light.

"So let's find out why these things happened for so long, let's find out why ultimately punters and participants were dudded."

Claims warnings were ignored

In 2011 one of trainer Mat Ellerton's horses was beaten by a long-odds, Smerdon-trained horse.

That same year he had reported what he thought was a suspicious loading and unloading of Smerdon-trained horses at the racetrack. He says his warnings to Racing Victoria were ignored.

"What they did, I don't know. But obviously now we do know they were treating horses on course. It's pretty hard to stomach really when that's your opposition," he says.

Racing Victoria said it was not in a position to act on hearsay or assumptions.

Recent scandals like Aquanita and the Cobalt affair have tested Australians' faith in the integrity and honesty of racing.

Big sponsors like Emirates and Longines have pulled out, at many racecourses crowds are down, and even those heavily invested in the sport like Mr Martin worry that the image of racing has been badly damaged.

"It's a great industry. It's a fantastic sport. It's made up of fabulous people that, you know, who else would get up at four o'clock in the morning and be out training a horse that can run up at picnics?" he said.

"They love their horses. We all love our horses. But we seem to get knocked from pillar to post, one scandal after another."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:42am
Murdoch's reptiles will investigate stuff like this and bring you all the facts that matter after the ABC is privatised.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skippy123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Murdoch's reptiles will investigate stuff like this and bring you all the facts that matter after the ABC is privatised.Wink

You’re funny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Gov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:27am
..........lol

Ralph Horowitz, a respected racing form analyst known as Racetrack Ralphy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by 3blindmice 3blindmice wrote:

Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

You read the wrong books.

Doesn't read books is far more likely
"If you want to read a real history book, read Howard Zinn's 'A People's History of the United States.' That book will knock you on your ass."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:


The ABC show a lefty bias in most of their comedy programs. Shows like the Gruen Transfer don't normally show too much balance. Q&A not much better !


There is not much doubt entertainers generally speaking are left wingers.

If we are all honest with ourselves a bad left wingers is better than a good right winger.

What's the point of putting up your false pretense if you're just going to post this later on? Terrible dishonesty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 8:15pm
I see myself as straight down the line however should a gun be pointed at my head and I was forced to take a political bent I'd prefer those slightly left than right, i believe their hearts to be in the right place.

Anybody who thinks the ABC is biased to the left when it comes to NEWS is absolutely kidding themselves.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I see myself as straight down the line however should a gun be pointed at my head and I was forced to take a political bent I'd prefer those slightly left than right, i believe their hearts to be in the right place.

Anybody who thinks the ABC is biased to the left when it comes to NEWS is absolutely kidding themselves.
The news (which does not include 7.30 or Q&A) is, within normal variance, straight down the line - because it is enforced.

Anyway, can't get too excited if Ralphy is the best they can come up with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

I see myself as straight down the line however should a gun be pointed at my head and I was forced to take a political bent I'd prefer those slightly left than right, i believe their hearts to be in the right place.

Anybody who thinks the ABC is biased to the left when it comes to NEWS is absolutely kidding themselves.

That's just a terrible and uniformed take. Firstly, it is in no way a centrist position to cede moral authority to the left. Secondly, read Gramsci, Marcuse, Adorno and Alinsky and then try and tell me their hearts are in the right place with a straight face.
What about all the programs that masquerade as news?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 10:22pm
Not long to lift off LOL
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adolphus twirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 11:03pm
Giles Thomson CEO Racing Vic. Credibility? Zero. Sounds like a politician who will say what he wants people to hear.
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