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2019 Melbourne Cup

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cotto1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 12:59pm
Hi there guys: I think I saw today was the day for late nominations for the cup.are there any.just out of curiosity?.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 3:16pm
None for the MC. Constantinople and Danceteria added to the CC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2019 at 3:41am
Surprise Baby and Finche both outstanding today.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2019 at 7:26pm




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2019 at 10:11pm
I liked Douglas MacArthur’s run yesterday
One to follow in the big races.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2019 at 11:28pm
I agree with you djebel, but I just wish Surprise Baby had of started off at 2000m.

Anyway I am crossing my fingers with both of them. Finche looks a quality animal who could develop into one of the better 2400m WFS horses in the world if trained for it. Tactical speed, good weight carrier and can finish off after being placed near the lead. Classy galloper!
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 3:15pm
Hi guys:
Would you guys aim kings will dream at this years Melbourne cup?.
I think they are maybe aiming him at the Cox Plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 3:30pm
Cox Plate horse
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Cross Counter finishing over the top to win the Melbourne Cup
Cross Counter (outside) winning last year's Melbourne Cup (Image: Racing Photos)

Cross Counter's weighty Cup task
Andrew Eddy@fastisheddy 11:43am O
,(
Last year's Melbourne Cup winner Cross Counter has been allocated one of the race's toughest-ever penalties at the announcement on Tuesday of the handicaps for the 2019 Caulfield and Melbourne Cups.

The Aidan O'Brien stayer Kew Gardens earned topweight of 58 kilograms for the $8 million race on November 5 but with 57.5kg, Godolphin horse Cross Counter faces the task of having to rise a whopping 6.5kg from his winning weight as a Northern Hemisphere three-year-old.

Godolphin's Group 1-winning duo Avilius and Hartnell have been assigned the joint topweight of 58kg for the $5.15m Caulfield Cup.

Cross Counter, who surged to victory in last year's Melbourne Cup for his British trainer Charlie Appleby, will carry 57.5kg this year as he bids to become the first horse since Makybe Diva in 2005 to retain the crown.

The 6.5kg increase from last year's weight of 51kg is the joint-second-highest progression in the weight allocated to a Melbourne Cup winner since 1970, with only Gala Supreme - in 1974 - receiving a larger increase of 8.5kg.

With differing topweights across the two Cups, the majority of dual entries have received 0.5kg less in the Melbourne Cup than the Caulfield Cup.

Avilius has been handed 57.5kg in the Melbourne Cup, with brilliant Japanese mare Lys Gracieux next in the weight scale on 57kg.

"Kew Gardens was the world's joint-highest-rated stayer alongside Stradivarius last year, he was a dominant winner of the 2018 St Leger at Doncaster and so is a worthy topweight among the 152 entries for this year's Melbourne Cup," said Carpenter.

"Cross Counter will carry 6.5kg more than when he won the Melbourne Cup, which is the same increase as Let's Elope in 1992, but given the nature of his victory last year and the natural progression in the weight-for-age benchmark from a three-year-old to a four-year-old, I felt it was an appropriate penalty to impose.

"In the Caulfield Cup, Avilius and Hartnell have both proven themselves at the highest level and thus have been assigned equal topweight among the 145 entries.

"In the past 12 months, Avilius has won two Group 1 races at 2000 metres or further and was Australia's highest-rated stayer, while Hartnell has maintained his place among the nation's elite performers.

"The 2018 Caulfield Cup topweight Humidor has been assigned one kilo less for this year's renewal, whilst Homesman's superb win in the Group 2 Feehan Stakes at The Valley last Saturday has earned him 56.5kg in the Caulfield Cup and 56kg in the Melbourne Cup.

"Homesman had 53kg when a narrow second to Best Solution in last year's Caulfield Cup.

"Inevitably the internationals will again pose a formidable challenge to the locally-trained stayers, with the first three home in the 2018 Melbourne Cup all set to return to Melbourne this year, but if the likes of Andrew Ramsden winner Steel Prince and Adelaide Cup winner Surprise Baby can maintain their form throughout the spring, I'm sure the visiting horses will have a real fight on their hands."

The weights allocated to other notable entries are as follows:

• 2018 Melbourne Cup placegetters Marmelo (Hughie Morrison) and Prince Of Arran (Charlie Fellowes) both have same weight as they carried 12 months prior with 56kg and 53kg respectively. Prince of Arran has 53.5kg in the Caulfield Cup;

• Andrew Ramsden winner Steel Prince (Anthony Freedman) is guaranteed a start in the Melbourne Cup and has 52.5kg - the same weight as the horse he narrowly defeated in the ballot exemption race, Surprise Baby (Paul Preusker). Both horses carry 0.5kg more in the Caulfield Cup;

• Northern Hemisphere three-year-olds have won the past two Melbourne Cups and the equal highest weighted on 52.5kg are Lindsay Park import Constantinople, German Derby runner-up Django Freeman (Robert Hickmott) and Lonsdale Cup placegetter Il Paradiso (Aidan O'Brien). The former two are also nominated for the Caulfield Cup and have 53kg;

• Six-time Melbourne Cup-winning owner Lloyd Williams has multiple runners in contention for a start in the 2019 edition including Joseph O'Brien-trained trio Master of Reality (55.5kg), Latrobe (55kg) and Twilight Payment (55kg) and Liam Howley-trained trio Homesman, Johannes Vermeer (55kg) and Yucatan (54.5kg);

• Last start German Group 1 winner Danceteria (David Menuisier), one of two late entries for the Caulfield Cup alongside Constantinople, has been allocated 56kg for the 19 October feature;

• Soon-to-arrive imports Mirage Dancer (Trent Busuttin and Natalie Young) and Southern France (Ciaron Maher and David Eustace) have also been allocated 56kg in the Caulfield Cup - 0.5kg more than the Melbourne Cup;

• Recent Group 1 Winx Stakes winner Samadoubt (Bjorn Baker) - who is entered for the Caulfield Cup only - shares the line with them at 56kg;

• The Australian Bloodstock-owned Ebor Handicap winner Mustajeer (Kris Lees) has 55.5kg in the Caulfield Cup and 55kg in the Melbourne Cup, while runner-up Red Galileo (Saeed bin Suroor) has 53kg and 52.5kg respectively and third placegetter Desert Skyline (David Elsworth) has 53kg in the Melbourne Cup;

• Emerging stayer Mer De Glace (Hisashi Shimizu), a winner of his past five starts, is one of five Japanese entries across the Cups and is weighted on 55.5kg in the Caulfield Cup and 55kg in the Melbourne Cup;

• Brisbane Cup winner Sixties Groove (Kris Lees) has been allotted 54.5kg in the Caulfield Cup and 54kg in the Melbourne Cup - 0.5kg more in both races than Sydney Cup winner Shraaoh (Chris Waller);

• The highest weighted locally-trained four-year-old is ATC Derby winner Angel of Truth (Gwenda Markwell) who has been assigned 54kg in the Caulfield Cup and 53.5kg in the Melbourne Cup;

• Fellow three-year-old classic winners among the entries are Queensland Derby winner Mr Quickie (Phillip Stokes) who has 53kg/52.5kg, New Zealand Derby winner Crown Prosecutor (Stephen Marsh) who has 53kg/52.5kg and South Australian Derby winner Qafila (David and Ben Hayes and Tom Dabernig) who has 51.5kg/51kg; and

• ATC Oaks winner Verry Elleegant (Chris Waller) is weighted on 52.5kg for the Caulfield Cup, while Queensland Oaks winner Winning Ways (Garry Newnham) has 51kg in the same race. Verry Elleegant drops to 52kg in the Melbourne Cup.

First acceptances for the Caulfield Cup and Melbourne Cup will be taken at noon on Tuesday, October 1.

Click here to view the Caulfield Cup weights.

Click here to view the Melbourne Cup weights.

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It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote In The Shadows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 9:01pm
Shocking weight for Cross Counter! Carpenter should be hung for that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 9:28pm
Jamal, you need to edit these before you post.

In The Shadows, Why do you say that ?

It looks fine to me.




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 9:33pm
I think your right Djebel.

He was a kilo at least light last year, and if it was not for Stradivarius he would have won at least one group 1 this year.

You usually get 4 kilos more at least for winning a cup, add the form this year behind the best 2500m+ horse in Europe and it looks okay to me.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 9:35pm
Carpenter has got it pretty much spot on imo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 9:56pm
Now lets look at my pet rant. The 4yo classic winners, and it looks like he has at least modified the weights given, maybe because he is starting to feel that classic winners in this country are not winning strong staying events, compared to the European and Japan staying events.

Angel Of Truth = 53.5kgs

Crown Prosecutor = 52 kgs

Mr Quickie = 52.5 kgs

Qafila = 51 kgs

The Chosen One 51.5 kgs

Transact = 50.5 kgs

Verry Elleegant = 52 kgs

Vow And Declare = 52 kgs

Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 12:12am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Jamal, you need to edit these before you post.

In The Shadows, Why do you say that ?

It looks fine to me.



Gee I'm sorry. It was an honest mistake.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 12:15am
Originally posted by In The Shadows In The Shadows wrote:

Shocking weight for Cross Counter! Carpenter should be hung for that


Cross Counter's weight increase from last year to this year 6.5kg, which is the equal largest weight increase for a Melbourne Cup winner since Let's Elope in 1992. Let's Elope carried 51kg to victory in 1991 and for 1992 she carried 57.5kg...an increase of 6.5kg. Mind you though, Let's Elope did a lot more then Cross Counter has done...so the question is - did Cross Counter deserve 57.5kg??
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grey Affair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 12:53am
Cross Counter has gone from being a NH 3yo to a 4yo. That has to be worth 3.5 to 4kg to start with, even without winning the race which has to be worth a few more kilos. What is his weight increase in relation to the WFA scale?

I think the weight increase is fair.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:22am
So if Lys Gracieux was a colt she would have 59 kgs. #interesting 🤔




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 4:57pm
I see Gerry Harvey is at it again, self promotion.

He has said on racenet that the Cup has fallen behind The Everest for public interest.

Discuss.

Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heavenly Glow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by VOYAGER VOYAGER wrote:

I see Gerry Harvey is at it again, self promotion.

He has said on racenet that the Cup has fallen behind The Everest for public interest.

Discuss.


There is some truth in that. Not in absolute terms, but the Cup has somewhat fallen behind due to public interest in not only the Everest - but the Sydney carnival that runs consecutive to Melbourne's this year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 5:31pm
I agree with some of what he says in the interview HG, but the Golden Slipper is 60 years old, and it does not have the crossover appeal to non racegoers, that the Melbourne Cup has.

There are several reasons the cup is unique. The history, the handicap conditions, which have changed but still exist to an extent, the time of the year it is run, it basically has no sporting competition, so it can grab the front page of the paper, the fact that it has its own holiday, in Victoria, and the prestige.

The only reason the Everest has any cache, is because of its prizemoney. There is no other reason why any non racegoer would even look twice at the race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 8:54pm
If Kew Gardens and Stradivarius met in a handicap in England there would be just half a kilo between them, Kew Gardens 120, Stradivarius 121.

We can assume Stradivarius would have received just 58.5 kgs in the Cup.

What a shame he was not entered and did not take up the challenge. 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2019 at 10:09pm
English St Leger 2900m on Sat & Irish St Leger 2800m on Sunday are both stacked with potential Melb Cup runners, so will probably have more impact on markets than Flemington or Rosehill this weekend.

Lloyd Williams has 4 runners in the Irish St Leger (Latrobe , Master of Reality, Buckhurst & Twilight Payment), taking on Godolphin (Cross Counter & Ispolini) & Coolmore (Capri, Cypress Creek, Kew Gardens & Western Australia). Capri is the only one not a Cup entry.

Also running is Southern France in Ireland, who was purchased for a 7-figure sum by an Aussie consortium (inc Darren Dance). He’ll have to run well to justify the price massive tag. Apparently will go to Ciaron Maher if he cones down under.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

If Kew Gardens and Stradivarius met in a handicap in England there would be just half a kilo between them, Kew Gardens 120, Stradivarius 121.

We can assume Stradivarius would have received just 58.5 kgs in the Cup.

What a shame he was not entered and did not take up the challenge. 


For some reason the bug weights can scare them off
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 9:58pm
https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=423950



See link above...Listen to Greg Carpenter's thoughts on the weights for the Caulfield and Melbourne Cups.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:04pm
Okay okay just hold on a minute, what is this I am reading.

I am looking at the ballot order, and Trap For Fools is sitting 25th, but a horse who won the Hotham handicap, and then also ran third in the cup last year is down at 48.

Alright I have been looking at Melbourne Cup order's of entry for about 30 years and this one has got me.

Surely winning the main lead up, and then running third in the previous years race gets you in the 24 for the following year, am I missing something?

And looking at the order of entry, if the 24 horses that are sitting in the field now show up, that will lessen the race in the eyes of Australians. Angel of Truth and Verry Elleegant are the only two locals.
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:17pm
Hi there guys: I thought the same thing.surely getting a 3rd place last year.carries some weight with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cotto1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:19pm
Hi there guys:
Or do you’s think no it shouldn’t.that each year is different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crooked_gambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 1:20pm
Trap for Fools is a Group 1 winner
A Prince of Arran is not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slammington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2019 at 4:12pm
I don't have any issue with the order of entry being different year to year as that is entirely dependent on the different nominations. However, I am surprised he didn't receive a higher weight this year for having run 3rd in the Cup.

I assume that he was penalised last year for his win in the Lexus so his weight in last year's race took that win into account. But you would think a placing in the Cup would be worth at least a kilo when you are otherwise as low in the weights as he is.

Ispolini is only a G3 winner in Dubai yet he got 55kg and is in the field. Rostropovich, Finche also got more. It just seems a bit strange. The comparison with Trap for Fools may not be the most apposite because he is a G1 wfa winner beating an Irish Derby winner so a completely different profile.

But if I was Charlie Fellowes I would be pretty dark about having to come all the way down here and win the Lexus again to get a start.
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