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2019 Melbourne Cup

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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 12:09pm
Godolphin will have a formidable army to defend their crown.

Cross Counter
Ispolini
Ghostwatch
Dubhe

Make up the team at this stage.







reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Godolphin will have a formidable army to defend their crown.

Cross Counter
Ispolini
Ghostwatch
Dubhe

Make up the team at this stage.





I know this will sound racist, but it just fact.

You forget the ones Saeed brings and just look at Charlie Appleby.

It took Charlie 3 years to do what Saeed has not been able to do in 20!
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xavier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 2:21pm
You make a good point
Karl and Susan Kennedy are my heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 2:26pm
2 things.

Joseph winning with a lightly raced 3yo has probably changed everything.

And there has been a feeling, a sentiment that Ferguson was sending the best youngsters to Applebly over Saeed. Saeed blew up about it and Ferguson left the organisation. 

It will be interesting to see if things even out over the next few seasons.






reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 2:52pm
Something has to stop the classy O'seas types from being set for our Famous Race , then a quick visit , having beaten the handicapper.
They are only exploiting the race conditions as Bart did many times.

For a start ,   a qualifying race in Australia, before they are eligible to start and their initial weight, must exceed our WFA scale by at least 1or2K.
   The Cup is an Australian Icon that keeps the dream alive, > That must not change.
   As times change & such huge prizemoney available , The holes in the credentials to gain a run in the Cup and other rich handicaps , need to be tightened .
ONLY MHO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

   Something has to stop the classy O'seas types from being set for our Famous Race , then a quick visit , having beaten the handicapper.
They are only exploiting the race conditions as Bart did many times.

For a start ,   a qualifying race in Australia, before they are eligible to start and their initial weight, must exceed our WFA scale by at least 1or2K.
   The Cup is an Australian Icon that keeps the dream alive, > That must not change.
   As times change & such huge prizemoney available , The holes in the credentials to gain a run in the Cup and other rich handicaps , need to be tightened .
ONLY MHO.


How did Bart "exploit" the race conditions. The race is a handicap...the idea is to "get em in light" And if he was explpitong the rsce conditions as you pit it...then he wasn't the only one and he w oknt be the last either.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kavg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 3:41pm
I think Max was saying that he exploited it the year that Rogan Josh won. Don't ask me, ask macca to explain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by kavg kavg wrote:

I think Max was saying that he exploited it the year that Rogan Josh won. Don't ask me, ask macca to explain.


Not sure how Bart exploited the Cup rules/conditions with Rogan Josh. The horse isn't the only light weight winner to win the race and he certainly won't be the last light weight to win.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 3:55pm
jamal ...   ( Last to first Bart ) In his day , qualified some of his horses in races like the Brisbane Carnival , and then didn't give a yelp thereafter ----   Well beaten CC...    Last in the Practice Stakes ,
MaCkinnon ...    THEN the grand final = Bolts in the CUP...   as did Think Big. and Others ...
One Trainer over generation --- I avoided , was Bart.
Anthony ( A true nice guy , having met him numerous times ) I look closely at his ----    James , NOW there you go , You can go there with confidence ( Hopefully he retains his different percentage of winners to that of his Family members )     ___   
The Cup conditions are tighter now , but the initial weights saw Barts rep...   Get 49K in the 1991 MC.   ( Lets Elope )

Bart had too many Flies in his stable ... and was unable to get a ruling on how many he was allowed ...   ( My fav = Bart's one liner )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 4:08pm
Think Big couldn't win a "walkover" even at WFA Macca, surely you realise that he was nothing but a handicapper as is the cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Think Big couldn't win a "walkover" even at WFA Macca, surely you realise that he was nothing but a handicapper as is the cup.


Of Course Croca ...    I only mentioned him as another who tailed off in the practice stakes .     Which was only a barrier trial for Cup Horses.

Bart was smart enough to get them qualified and then avoid getting penalties ...       
The same man would have been a spectator had I been a Steward ... Lets put it that way.
Top of the prizemoney . Bottom of the winner percentage - year after year.

I know a few successful Punters ... They rate their trainers as much as their horses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

jamal ...   ( Last to first Bart ) In his day , qualified some of his horses in races like the Brisbane Carnival , and then didn't give a yelp thereafter ----   Well beaten CC...    Last in the Practice Stakes ,
MaCkinnon ...    THEN the grand final = Bolts in the CUP...   as did Think Big. and Others ...
One Trainer over generation --- I avoided , was Bart.
Anthony ( A true nice guy , having met him numerous times ) I look closely at his ----    James , NOW there you go , You can go there with confidence ( Hopefully he retains his different percentage of winners to that of his Family members )     ___   
The Cup conditions are tighter now , but the initial weights saw Barts rep...   Get 49K in the 1991 MC.   ( Lets Elope )

Bart had too many Flies in his stable ... and was unable to get a ruling on how many he was allowed ...   ( My fav = Bart's one liner )


Your memory isn't very good. Some of Bart's Cup winners ran well in the Caulfield Cup and ran well in the MacKinnon Stakes. Not all of them last as you're alluding too.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

Think Big couldn't win a "walkover" even at WFA Macca, surely you realise that he was nothing but a handicapper as is the cup.


Of Course Croca ...    I only mentioned him as another who tailed off in the practice stakes .     Which was only a barrier trial for Cup Horses.

Bart was smart enough to get them qualified and then avoid getting penalties ...       
The same man would have been a spectator had I been a Steward ... Lets put it that way.
Top of the prizemoney . Bottom of the winner percentage - year after year.

I know a few successful Punters ... They rate their trainers as much as their horses.


1974 - Think Big DID NOT run in the MacKinnon Stakes, he ran in the Hotham and won it.

1975 - Think Big DID run in the MacKinnon Stakes and ran 10th.
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 4:34pm
Bart's Melbourne Cup Winners - Record at Previous Start Before Cup Win



1965: Light Fingers: 3rd (Mackinnon Stakes)

1966: Galilee: 3rd (Mackinnon Stakes)

1967: Red Handed: 4th (Mackinnon Stakes)

1974: Think Big: 1st (Hotham Handicap)

1975: Think Big: 10th (Mackinnon Stakes)

1977: Gold And Black: 2nd (Mackinnon Stakes)

1979: Hyperno: 4th (Mackinnon Stakes)

1990: Kingston Rule: 2nd (Dalgety Stakes)

1991: Let's Elope: 1st (Mackinnon Stakes)

1996: Saintly: 1st (Cox Plate)

1999: Rogan Josh: 1st (Mackinnon Stakes)

2008: Viewed: 10th (Mackinnon Stakes)


12 runners: 4-2-2
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

jamal ...   ( Last to first Bart ) In his day , qualified some of his horses in races like the Brisbane Carnival , and then didn't give a yelp thereafter ----   Well beaten CC...    Last in the Practice Stakes ,
MaCkinnon ...    THEN the grand final = Bolts in the CUP...   as did Think Big. and Others ...
One Trainer over generation --- I avoided , was Bart.
Anthony ( A true nice guy , having met him numerous times ) I look closely at his ----    James , NOW there you go , You can go there with confidence ( Hopefully he retains his different percentage of winners to that of his Family members )     ___   
The Cup conditions are tighter now , but the initial weights saw Barts rep...   Get 49K in the 1991 MC.   ( Lets Elope )

Bart had too many Flies in his stable ... and was unable to get a ruling on how many he was allowed ...   ( My fav = Bart's one liner )


Your memory isn't very good. Some of Bart's Cup winners ran well in the Caulfield Cup and ran well in the MacKinnon Stakes. Not all of them last as you're alluding too.

   He had some smart horses , not disputing.    Think big won 2 so would have been penalised the 2nd time but I don't recall too many of Bart's Starters in the Cup being highly weighted.

Did any of you win backing Bart Cummings Horses ??? . over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote maccamax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 5:05pm
BLASPHEMY I'm charged with ..    Hatch will disown me .

That is the offence you face if you do what I have done over the years re
Bartholomew.    I once suggested a different place to put that statue .

Forgive me.    I shall repent and forgive Viewed & co for their glaring reversals.
   One must not forget Bart still hold the 3200m Flemington Racord with
Kingston Rule and led in some 13 winners including one I backed , The great Comic Court, In CR 3.19.1.   Where have those years gone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

   Something has to stop the classy O'seas types from being set for our Famous Race , then a quick visit , having beaten the handicapper.
They are only exploiting the race conditions as Bart did many times.

For a start ,   a qualifying race in Australia, before they are eligible to start and their initial weight, must exceed our WFA scale by at least 1or2K.
   The Cup is an Australian Icon that keeps the dream alive, > That must not change.
   As times change & such huge prizemoney available , The holes in the credentials to gain a run in the Cup and other rich handicaps , need to be tightened .
ONLY MHO.



This is not a bad point.

I do believe that French trained horses can not or at least could not run in a handicap in England and vis versa. The reason being, there was little form for the handicapper to work with.

I am happy for somebody to correct me on the above point.





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

Originally posted by Jamal Jamal wrote:

Originally posted by maccamax maccamax wrote:

jamal ...   ( Last to first Bart ) In his day , qualified some of his horses in races like the Brisbane Carnival , and then didn't give a yelp thereafter ----   Well beaten CC...    Last in the Practice Stakes ,
MaCkinnon ...    THEN the grand final = Bolts in the CUP...   as did Think Big. and Others ...
One Trainer over generation --- I avoided , was Bart.
Anthony ( A true nice guy , having met him numerous times ) I look closely at his ----    James , NOW there you go , You can go there with confidence ( Hopefully he retains his different percentage of winners to that of his Family members )     ___   
The Cup conditions are tighter now , but the initial weights saw Barts rep...   Get 49K in the 1991 MC.   ( Lets Elope )

Bart had too many Flies in his stable ... and was unable to get a ruling on how many he was allowed ...   ( My fav = Bart's one liner )


Your memory isn't very good. Some of Bart's Cup winners ran well in the Caulfield Cup and ran well in the MacKinnon Stakes. Not all of them last as you're alluding too.

   He had some smart horses , not disputing.    Think big won 2 so would have been penalised the 2nd time but I don't recall too many of Bart's Starters in the Cup being highly weighted.

Did any of you win backing Bart Cummings Horses ??? . over the years.



Bart's highly weighted Cup winners were:

1966: Galilee (56.5kg)

1975: Think Big (58.5kg)

1977: Gold And Black (57kg)

1979: Hyperno (56kg)

1996: Saintly (55.5kg)
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 6:41pm
What are their plans with Avilius?

Is he now going shorter or heading to another Cup?

He could win the Cox Plate if aimed for it imo now the great mare is going.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lord Hybrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2019 at 8:32am
Noticed the 2018 Cup runner up MARMELO resumed overnight in a G3 2400m race at Newbury and he won first up.

Wonder if he’ll be back for a 3rd crack at the Melb Cup later this year?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 1:12am
I hope so Lordy.

I think he is actually a better 3200m horse than Red Cadeaux, but RC was a better WFA horse, his second in the Queen Elizabeth a good example!
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2019 at 12:00pm
The Hughie Morrison-trained Marmelo prior to the 2017 Emirates Melbourne Cup (Image: Racing Photos)

Marmelo wins, Cup again an option


Brad Bishop

14 April, 2019


Hughie Morrison is considering a third trip to Melbourne with Marmelo, who on Saturday night returned to racing with a stunning win at Newbury in England.

The Duke Of Marmalade six-year-old overpowered his rivals in the Group 3 John Porter Stakes (2414m) at his first start since beating home all bar Cross Counter under 56kg in last year’s Melbourne Cup.

It followed a ninth placing, as $7 equal favourite, in the 2017 Melbourne Cup won by Rekindling.

“I think we have every good reason (to go to Melbourne again),” Morrison told Racing TV after the John Porter Stakes.

“We would obviously carry more weight this year, but he’s a big horse, so he can carry the weight and you could say he was a bit unlucky last year, he got there (to the front) too early.”

The John Porter Stakes win has all but convinced Morrison to head to the Group 1 Coronation Cup (2414m) at Epsom on May 31.

“We put him in the Coronation Cup at Epsom and he’s in the Yorkshire Cup, but I suspect I’d be likely to wait for the Coronation Cup and hope that we have a bit of rain, which we’d probably be due by then,” Morrison said.

"We'll be looking at those sort of races, but we won't be over-racing him, as we never have done."

 

Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote breeding_above_all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2019 at 7:28am
I’m not a big international racing watcher, anyone give the main lead up races like Gold Cup etc dates?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2019 at 8:25pm




reductio ad absurdum



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DATE TRACK RACE DIST AGE SEX PURSE
31-May-19 Epsom Investec Oaks 12.03 F  3 f £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
1-Jun-19 Epsom Investec Derby Stakes 12.03 F  3 £ 1,500,000 (*$1,920,000)
18-Jun-19 Ascot St James'S Palace Stakes 7.97 F  3 £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
18-Jun-19 Ascot Queen Anne Stakes 8 F  4U £ 600,000 (*$768,000)
18-Jun-19 Ascot King'S Stand Stakes 5 F  3U £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
19-Jun-19 Ascot Prince Of Wales Stakes 9.96 F  4U £ 750,000 (*$960,000)
20-Jun-19 Ascot Ascot Gold Cup 19.95 F  4U £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
21-Jun-19 Ascot Coronation Stakes 7.97 F  3 f £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
21-Jun-19 Ascot Commonwealth Cup 6 F  3 £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
22-Jun-19 Ascot Diamond Jubilee Stakes 6 F  4U £ 600,000 (*$768,000)
6-Jul-19 Sandown Coral-Eclipse   9.95 F  3U £ 750,000 (*$960,000)
12-Jul-19 Newmarket Tattersalls Falmouth Stakes 8 F  3U fm £ 200,000 (*$256,000)
13-Jul-19 Newmarket Darley July Cup Stakes 6 F  3U £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
27-Jul-19 Ascot King George Vi And Queen Elizabeth Sks  11.96 F  3U £ 1,250,000 (*$1,600,000)
30-Jul-19 Goodwood Qatar Goodwood Cup Stakes 16 F  3U £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
31-Jul-19 Goodwood Qatar Sussex Stakes 8 F  3U £ 1,059,250 (*$1,355,840)
1-Aug-19 Goodwood Qatar Nassau Stakes 9.90 F  3U fm £ 600,000 (*$768,000)
21-Aug-19 York Juddmonte International Stakes 10.25 F  3U £ 1,000,000 (*$1,280,000)
22-Aug-19 York Yorkshire Oaks 11.85 F  3U fm £ 350,000 (*$448,000)
23-Aug-19 York Coolmore Nunthorpe Stakes 5 F  2U £ 400,000 (*$512,000)
7-Sep-19 Haydock 32red Sprint Cup Stakes 6 F  3U £ 300,000 (*$384,000)
14-Sep-19 Doncaster William Hill St Leger Stakes 14.52 F  3 £ 700,000 (*$896,000)
28-Sep-19 Newmarket Juddmonte Middle Park Stakes 6 F  2 £ 275,000 (*$352,000)
28-Sep-19 Newmarket Juddmonte Cheveley Park Stakes 6 F  2 f £ 275,000 (*$352,000)
5-Oct-19 Newmarket Kingdom Of Bahrain Sun Chariot Stakes 8 F  3U fm £ 250,000 (*$320,000)
11-Oct-19 Newmarket Bet365 Fillies' Mile 8 F  2 f £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
12-Oct-19 Newmarket Darley Dewhurst Stakes  7 F  2 £ 500,000 (*$640,000)
19-Oct-19 Ascot Qipco British Champions Sprint Stakes 6 F  3U £ 632,500 (*$809,600)
19-Oct-19 Ascot Qipco British Champions Fillies & Mares S 11.96 F  3U fm £ 600,000 (*$768,000)
19-Oct-19 Ascot Queen Elizabeth Ii Stakes  8 F  3U £ 1,156,250 (*$1,480,000)
19-Oct-19 Ascot Qipco Champion Stakes 9.96 F  3U £ 1,300,000 (*$1,664,000)
26-Oct-19 Doncaster Vertem Futurity Trophy Stakes 8 F  2 £ 231,000 (*$295,680)

That is all the Group 1 races in the UK for the remainder of the season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2019 at 9:33pm
Missing Fridays Coronation Cup. 




reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 12:09am
djebel that photo is so cruel to those connections and the trainer, and worst of all, me
Remember, it might take intelligence to be smart , but it takes experience to be wise
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOYAGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 5:37pm
I see overnight that OTI's Amade, won the 2 mile Belmont Gold Cup invitational.

Anyone with better international credentials than me comment on this performance and where this horse sits as a chance in the cup?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2019 at 10:48am
Melbourne Cup now worth $8 million dollars.


https://www.racing.com/news/2019-06-11/news-melbourne-cup-worth-$8m
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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The 2018 Lexus Melbourne Cup trophy, valued at $200,000 (Image: Kate Watts)
The Lexus Melbourne Cup trophy (Image: Kate Watts)

Melbourne Cup worth $8m
Andrew Eddy@fastisheddy 9:09am O
,(
The Melbourne Cup is back as being the richest race of the week of spring racing at Flemington with the race worth $8 million this November.

In a clear response to Racing NSW’s move on Flemington’s spring territory with the inaugural $7.5 million Golden Eagle (1500m) to be run at Rosehill on Victoria Derby day, the increase of just $700,000 on last year’s purse ensures the world’s richest handicap remains the country’s richest race for the first week of November.

Victoria Racing Club chair Amanda Elliott told the Herald Sun the Melbourne Cup remains the race participants desire most.

"It is the race every Australian owner, trainer and jockey wants to win, and internationally, has become one of the most sought-after prizes in world racing," she said.

Elliott also took aim at Racing NSW’s $14 million The Everest – which is to be run on Caulfield Cup day.

"Connections cannot buy a place in the Lexus Melbourne Cup, it has to be earned."

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It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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