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2018 W.S Cox Plate 2040m

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djebel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 3:47pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 3:48pm

Cracksman headlines international invitation list for 2018 Cox Plate

By James Lamb about an hour ago
This is what they are chasingImage: Getty
The first round of international invites for this year's Cox Plate have been released, with UK star Cracksman headlining a list of 13 gallopers.

The John Gosden-trained Cracksman, a winner of seven of his nine starts, has stepped out twice this year for Group One wins in the Prix Ganay and Coronation Cup.

Moonee Valley Racing Club CEO Michael Browell is hopeful the recent $2 million prizemoney injection will entice Cracksman and other international stars to chase the Plate.

"We are confident we can entice horses on the world stage to compete at The Valley in what is now the richest Group 1 turf race at 2000m in the world,” said Browell.

“Working with the MVRC Committee and Paul Bloodworth and the team at Racing Victoria, we have identified what we believe to be the best Weight-for-Age horses and we hope they are keen to take on Winx and create a brilliant spectacle,” explained Browell.

The full list of WFA stars can be viewed below, with a real mix of UK, Irish, UAE, French, American and Japanese horses.



There is however a conspicuous absence of Hong Kong-trained gallopers, which is due to quarantine restrictions.

“Quarantine issues unfortunately ruled out inviting some of the stars from Hong Kong, however this is something we are hoping to rectify in the near future,” said Racing Victoria's Paul Bloodworth.

Aidan O'Brien, who won the race in 2014 with Adelaide, has been issued with invitations for three of his emerging middle-distance gallopers, with Saxon Warrior the best hope of the trio according to the market.

Godolphin will no doubt be tempted to bring one or both of Benbatl and Thunder Snow after Folkswood finished third in last year's Cox Plate behind Winx and Humidor.

American stallion Yoshida, trained by William Mott, would be the first horse to travel from the United States to contest our premier WFA event. 

Six ballot exempt races for the Cox Plate are run each season and spots in the $5 million field are guaranteed to 2017 Japan Cup winner Cheval Grand, Australian Cup winner Harlem and ATC Australian Derby victor Levendi

Connections of the Dato’ Tan Chin Nam Stakes, Caulfield Guineas and Caulfield Stakes winners in the spring will also have the option to contest the race if they choose.

Winx, who is shooting for a historic fourth Cox Plate, is a $1.55 favourite for the race, ahead of Humidor at $15.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Morston View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:12pm
Why is Enable not on that wish list?
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djebel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by Morston Morston wrote:

Why is Enable not on that wish list?

Not a realistic chance ?  Approve LOL

There reallyn should be massive enticement over and above paying expenses.

I suspect there'd be a slightly better chance of getting some serious stars if it was the Mackinnon that was invitational. It gives horses an extra 2 weeks after the Arc and they may at least think about it.

Of that list I would suggest realistic prospects are Benbatl, Recoletos, Lancaster Bomber and Thunder Snow ( although more likely Breeders Cup ) 

Thunder Snow must be some chance as he is a potential shuttle stallion although they may think Helmet alone is a selling point.




STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:45pm
The owners of most of these horses are not interested in the prize money.

Apart from some being aimed at the Arc and other prestigious races in Europe or the US, horses like Cracksman’s stud values make the Cox plate, or any other race’s price money look like chicken feed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:46pm
When we have a horse like Winx they should be offering up a one off bonus of $5 million extra to get a horse like Cracksman out here if he beats her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Speediskey Speediskey wrote:

When we have a horse like Winx they should be offering up a one off bonus of $5 million extra to get a horse like Cracksman out here if he beats her.

As Morston said though, That would not entice his owner.


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

reductio ad absurdum

The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mug-Punter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 11:18pm
Can I ask 2 questions. 1. How many years have the international invitations gone out? 2. How many of that number (1st invite only) have ever come? The invites are always the best of the best but seriously, anyone who follows racing knows Cracksman isn’t coming!

I asked this earlier on twitter with no luck. Anyone know???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mug-Punter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by Mug-Punter Mug-Punter wrote:

Can I ask 2 questions. 1. How many years have the international invitations gone out? 2. How many of that number (1st invite only) have ever come? The invites are always the best of the best but seriously, anyone who follows racing knows Cracksman isn’t coming!

I asked this earlier on twitter with no luck. Anyone know???


Q1 was 2011 apparently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 4:56am
Adelaide was an invite in 2013.

Couldn't imagine anyone wanting to come over last 2 years, due to the Winx dominance. This year could be a different, a case of Winx at the end of her reign, might not even get to the Cox Plate if she runs below normal at any run, so may be an incentive to target a couple at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 1:48pm
Whats the 3 year old list for the Cox Plate this year?
Just wanting to look at a new horse on the scene very low in the weights.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

Whats the 3 year old list for the Cox Plate this year?
Just wanting to look at a new horse on the scene very low in the weights.






3yos are NOT low in the weights.



STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 2:06pm
what you mean, they can carry 49.5kg?

fillies?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 3:17pm
To share Djebel's belief that 49.5kg is not low in the weights you must believe that the Weight For Age scale is accurate in both its conception and application.

Of course 49.5kg is low in the weights.  

The lowest weight carried in the Cox Plate is 47.5kg by 3yo fillies.  This up 1.5kg on what Miss Finland carried in 2006 because they fiddle the WFA scale regularly, which sort of makes a mockery of the scale being accurate in conception and application doesn't it ? 

For interest sake this is a list of all the fillies who have contested the Cox Plate :

1923   FRANCES TRESSADY   6TH
1942   PHILANDER   10TH
1964   REVEILLE   8TH
1970   SKY CALL   11TH
1975   DENISE'S JOY   8TH
1976   SURROUND   WON
1978   PRUNELLA   10TH
1980   YIR TIZ   5TH
1982   ENGLISH WONDER   9TH
1983   PERFECT BLISS   8TH
1986   SOCIETY BAY   11TH
1987   MIDNIGHT FEVER   6TH
1988   GLENVIEW   10TH
1989   TRISTANAGH   7TH
1989   COURTZA   10TH
1992   SLIGHT CHANCE   3RD
2006   MISS FINLAND   6TH
2008   SAMANTHA MISS   3RD
2016   YANKEE ROSE   3RD

19 fillies have contested the race in 95 years - 1 winner 3 thirds


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 3:47pm
Only 19 fillies have contested the race. 

What a great record they have at stud

Reveille -  2 stakes winners in the US
Denise's Joy - Sunday Joy G1
Surround - 1 stakes winner
Yir Tiz - Mr Tiz - Champion g1
English Wonder - Dr Grace g1 
Perfect Bliss - 1 stakes winner
Society Bay - 2 stakes winners
Glenview -  Timber Trader G1
Courtza - O'Reilly G1 - SIRE 
Slight Chance - 2 stakes winners and a good reasonable Dane Shadow
Miss Finland - Stay With Me G1
Samantha Miss -  Miss Fabulass G1 winner in waiting.

That is a monumental strike rate for any subgroup of fillies/mares.



 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 4:10pm
Surround's Sir Tristram colt Frame looked to be something special before he dropped dead after running a flashy second in the 1984 Blue Diamond Prelude.  Heart attack. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:09pm
Miss Fabulass is the only 3yo I've seen that looks even remotely like a Cox Plate horse. But I have a golden rule- whenever I start considering a filly for the Cox Plate I bang my head ten times against a concrete wall and I usually snap out of it.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

Miss Fabulass is the only 3yo I've seen that looks even remotely like a Cox Plate horse. But I have a golden rule- whenever I start considering a filly for the Cox Plate I bang my head ten times against a concrete wall and I usually snap out of it.

No need to bang your head, She aint entered. 


STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Chance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:53pm
Late entries permitted from memory, though happy to stand corrected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speediskey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 8:59pm
If theres an owner that would be willing to pay for it she's found the one as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tontonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2018 at 9:55pm
The only fillies nominated (so far) are Futooh, El Dorado Dreaming and Asharani.

While only 19 fillies have contested the race 311 colts and geldings have contested the Cox plate since its inception in 1922.  

In total, factoring in the fillies 330 three year olds have contested the race and 20 have won. (The strike rate of 3YO males is 19/311 or 6.1%;  the strike rate of fillies is 1/19 or 5.3%.  

3yo's have won 20/97 or 20.6% of all Cox Plates)

The Cox Plate was famous as a Derby trial.  Between 1922 and 1989 287 three year olds ran in the Plate at an average of  4.16 per year.  In that period there was only one year - 1929- when no 3YO took part.  

In 1942 a record 13 three year olds took part in a field on 19.  Tranquil Star, a 5YO mare, romped home by 5 lengths.

6 years when no 3YO has taken part : 1929, 1993, 2003, 2007, 2010, 2015

Only 20 3YO's have taken part since 2001. 
3YO Cox Plate winners

Shamus Award    2013
So You Think (NZ) 2009
Savabeel          2004
Octagonal (NZ) 1995
Red Anchor (NZ) 1984
Surround (NZ) 1976 (filly)
Taj Rossi         1973
Abdul (NZ) 1970
Daryl's Joy (NZ) 1969
Rajah Sahib (NZ) 1968
Star Affair 1965
Noholme 1959
Kingster 1955
Bronton 1951
Alister 1950
Delta 1949
Carbon Copy 1948
Chanak 1947
Garrio 1935
Manfred 1925
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speedingaway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2018 at 7:29pm
25 horses left in the Cox Plate - shouldn't get a third dividend going off the weakness of some of the horses still in.

ARBEITSAM - 59kg
AVILIUS
BENBATL (UK)
BLAIR HOUSE (UK)
CLIFFS OF MOHER (IRE)
DANON LIBERTY 
EMOTIONLESS (UK)
HARLEM
HOMESMAN
HUMIDOR
KINGS WILL DREAM
MR GARCIA
NIGHT'S WATCH
PLEIN CIEL
THE TAJ MAHAL
TRAP FOR FOOLS
D'ARGENTO - 57.5kg
SIEGE OF QUEBEC
WINX - 57kg
ROSTROPOVICH (IRE) - 56kg
SAVVY COUP (NZ) - 55.5kg
UNFORGOTTEN
THE AUTUMN SUN - 49.5kg
THINKIN' BIG
EL DORADO DREAMING - 47.5kg

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Grieves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2018 at 10:47pm
How many starters are we looking at here?  I'm thinking maybe 6, but could be 5

Definites:
AVILIUS
BENBATL (UK)
HUMIDOR
SAVVY COUP (NZ)
WINX

Possibles:
BLAIR HOUSE (UK) (don't think Appleby has made up his mind yet)
D'ARGENTO (Cantala?)
UNFORGOTTEN (Myer mentioned)
ROSTROPOVICH (no idea)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 9:07am
A placing in the Caulfield Guineas for some bizarre reason always gets you a start and somebody usually takes up the offer no matter how hopeless.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 2:02pm
i would love to see alivius do a MINE THAT BIRD, kentucky derby style.

sit back, 15 lengths tailed off.

run to the tail of the field at the 800 corner, hug the rails the whole way, find gaps, have a lap full of horse.

moonee valley circuit is so suited to a mine that bird style run.

someone needs to try something a little strange.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJMitchell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Redemption Redemption wrote:

i would love to see alivius do a MINE THAT BIRD, kentucky derby style.

sit back, 15 lengths tailed off.

run to the tail of the field at the 800 corner, hug the rails the whole way, find gaps, have a lap full of horse.

moonee valley circuit is so suited to a mine that bird style run.

someone needs to try something a little strange.



Just went and caught a replay of that. Amazing!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnclick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 3:12pm
amazing win by MIND THE BIRD, loved the arrogant salute at the furlong pole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 4:17pm
You have to remember they tried with Miss Finland who was much more mature than this boy at this stage also.  Mind you the ride was horrid that day if I remember right!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 5:38pm
Brave new world where 5 length Caulfield Guineas winners are immature.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExceedAndExcel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2018 at 5:53pm
Miss Finland wasn’t good enough anyway. That was shown by the fact that she was never able to win open age group 1 in many attempts.
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