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2018 Melbourne Cup 3200m Group 1

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Heavy10 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heavy10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:06pm
I see some "hipster" pub had a anti cup party today.. Google pub and one of first thing I ready is them advertising their meat banquets 😂

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneonesit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Originally posted by oneonesit oneonesit wrote:

Do we judge Olympic 100m runners on how well they “look”at the starting line ?
I don't know anything about olympic sprinting but I do know something about combat sports and we judge them based on how they look at the weigh ins.
Not only are they judged on how they look they are judged on how they are behaving.
How’s a horse race anymore “combative” than human racing .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:44pm
I'm just saying there's physical and behavioral positive and negatives in both fighting and racing presentation. On top of the obvious physical conditioning maybe humans give off tells in high pressure situations and horses don't bother to conceal them. Both are strong betting sports and markets are adjusteded based on presentation.

Again I don't know anything about olympic sprinting maybe a coach would pick up on these things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 12:13am
Just watching the hockey weigh in and interviews. Lol a WTF moment when he was on the scale for twice as long as everyone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:18am
Originally posted by Sneck Sneck wrote:

Has the Melbourne Cup jumped the shark? 
It's one thing for internationals to win but it's another thing for internationals to win first up.
The traditional lead ups are being rendered irrelevant so how do you access this race properly.
Tontonan is somewhat of a racing historian and he said he doesn't have much interest in the international cup.
I went through the form in routine fashion this year but it was robotic.
The magic is gone it's just another race.
Bart is gone and the 3 year old classic winners are fading into irrelevance.


The Melbourne Cup is an antique piece within the context of Australian racing. It does not fit. It is almost impossible to produce a horse here that can a. win the MC, and b. win other significant Australian races. Lord Williams is a monomaniac and he couldn't do it.  Euro/Brit racing is geared to distance racing so the Melbourne Cup fits. We are not going to reformat Australian racing to fit the Melbourne Cup so the internationals and Williams' internationals will keep on winning.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tlazolteotl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:25am
On Bowman riding a kg over:

When was the public informed? When could the public have been informed if an effort was made to inform them at the earliest opportunity.
"Even the things that I believe in the most, I doubt.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote furious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:33am
Tell Tontonan that the winner carries more Australian Melbourne Cup History in his pedigree than some of the Aussie breds.  Sometimes what we bring out here also has branches left in Europe especially with the stallions ie Musket. So Counter Cross decends from the family of Musket, Balloch, Beau Pere etc.

Just some of the Melbourne Cup winners with them in the pedigree (Sire or sire of the dam or sire) include Carbine, Dalray, Auraria, Poseidon, Lord Cardigan, Martini Henry, Merriwee, Revenue, Gaulus, The Grafter, Night Watch, Westcourt, The Parisian, Galilee.  Placegetters like Trenton (twice), Wakeful, Hava, Beau Vite etc etc.  You can take it further into the present ages with the Sunday Silence (also from this family) line Delta Blues winning in 2001.

That's a big slice of Melbourne Cup history carrying Cross Counter's damline to success.  Only trouble is he's already gelded so no hope of having him carry on this rich history at stud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Redemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 7:27am
Does anyone know what the crowd attendance figure was yesterday?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anabel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 7:28am
Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

On Bowman riding a kg over:

When was the public informed? When could the public have been informed if an effort was made to inform them at the earliest opportunity.


This is a strange one, as his ride in the race before the Cup also had 55kgs, like Marmelo. So did he ride that one at 55? And if so, why not the next? When did they know he’d be over... surely he weighed out heavy prior to the race?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Summer Regent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 8:29am
Crowd was 93,000, down 7,000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 9:18am
No "B" grade UK horses coming over now, the first two home and probably the third have all top group form, Charley Appleby has a great eye to recognise this horse was the perfect fit for our race and being young just like Rekindling they get the perfect weight relief ( that's why their at the top of their game) , the mare Youngstar ran very creditable imo ( at least she beat the Ebor winner home trained by the best in the world lolol) finished under 6 lengths from the winner, the prizemoney is a great inducement for group horse from o/s to continue to come over , I just hope our NZ friends have another Foxbridge , Fairs Fair , Marco Polo Count Rendered or an Alcimedes frolicking in some lush paddock to lift our hopes inwardly and outwardly , until that happens like all good librans I will continue to be a dreamer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enabled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Summer Regent Summer Regent wrote:

Crowd was 93,000, down 7,000


It was 83,000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 9:40am
Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

No "B" grade UK horses coming over now, the first two home and probably the third have all top group form, Charley Appleby has a great eye to recognise this horse was the perfect fit for our race and being young just like Rekindling they get the perfect weight relief ( that's why their at the top of their game) , the mare Youngstar ran very creditable imo ( at least she beat the Ebor winner home trained by the best in the world lolol) finished under 6 lengths from the winner, the prizemoney is a great inducement for group horse from o/s to continue to come over , I just hope our NZ friends have another Foxbridge , Fairs Fair , Marco Polo Count Rendered or an Alcimedes frolicking in some lush paddock to lift our hopes inwardly and outwardly , until that happens like all good librans I will continue to be a dreamer.


Forget New Zealand breeding Mr Carioca we have ample stamina in Australia.

However.....





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carioca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 10:50am
Originally posted by djebel djebel wrote:

Originally posted by Carioca Carioca wrote:

No "B" grade UK horses coming over now, the first two home and probably the third have all top group form, Charley Appleby has a great eye to recognise this horse was the perfect fit for our race and being young just like Rekindling they get the perfect weight relief ( that's why their at the top of their game) , the mare Youngstar ran very creditable imo ( at least she beat the Ebor winner home trained by the best in the world lolol) finished under 6 lengths from the winner, the prizemoney is a great inducement for group horse from o/s to continue to come over , I just hope our NZ friends have another Foxbridge , Fairs Fair , Marco Polo Count Rendered or an Alcimedes frolicking in some lush paddock to lift our hopes inwardly and outwardly , until that happens like all good librans I will continue to be a dreamer.


Forget New Zealand breeding Mr Carioca we have ample stamina in Australia.

However.....


Of course we have ......just a pity they don't stay quick enough, how long before an Ebor winner can return serve in our cup? the English handicapper can't cut the mustard, like I say it's a group horses cup now , still it's interesting subject to ponder over imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jessie1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 1:42pm
Can someone remind me how to post an attachment i havent used this for years so have forgotten but i am interested in your opinion on an interview  with Thoroughbred Daily News ( Europe)  with Aidan O'brien about Cliffs of Moher prospects  in March  this year

Just cant see the  atttachment option 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gay3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:09pm
You can put up the link or copy/paste both straight into the reply box.
Experience is something you gain a few minutes after you could have used it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:24pm
Anyone know what the breakdown rates over in Europe are like compared to Australia? Wondering whether the raiders have been incredibly unlucky, or if its more common over there. I know a lot is said for firmer tracks over here but curious as to how the figures from here and over there compare.
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:41pm
Never mind, worked it out
Lost in the magical world of racing. Storm Siren & Speed Hero.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote niki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Anyone know what the breakdown rates over in Europe are like compared to Australia? Wondering whether the raiders have been incredibly unlucky, or if its more common over there. I know a lot is said for firmer tracks over here but curious as to how the figures from here and over there compare.
Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Never mind, worked it out
Can you share? Big smile
ty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jessie1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 5:55pm
Thanks Gay ill have a  crack .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jessie1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 5:56pm
Aidan O'Brien Talks 2018 Prospects _ TDN _ Thoroughbred Daily News _ Horse Racing News, Results and Video _ Thoroughbred Breeding and Auctions.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jessie1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 5:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jessie1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:05pm
https://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/article/2101706/trainer-aidan-obrien-says-drop-distance-suits-cliffs-moher-eclipse

After reading these 2 articles   wondering what peoples thought about Cliffs of Om  and the distance, and if this was always going to end up a problem ,   exacerbated by   Aust conditions etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by Jessie1234 Jessie1234 wrote:

https://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/article/2101706/trainer-aidan-obrien-says-drop-distance-suits-cliffs-moher-eclipse

After reading these 2 articles   wondering what peoples thought about Cliffs of Om  and the distance, and if this was always going to end up a problem ,   exacerbated by   Aust conditions etc



Link doesn't work
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Jessie1234 Jessie1234 wrote:

https://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/article/2101706/trainer-aidan-obrien-says-drop-distance-suits-cliffs-moher-eclipse

After reading these 2 articles   wondering what peoples thought about Cliffs of Om  and the distance, and if this was always going to end up a problem ,   exacerbated by   Aust conditions etc


Considering they had barely travelled 1200m and the was a very safe slow track it can only come down to bad luck.





reductio ad absurdum



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormSiren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by niki niki wrote:

Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Anyone know what the breakdown rates over in Europe are like compared to Australia? Wondering whether the raiders have been incredibly unlucky, or if its more common over there. I know a lot is said for firmer tracks over here but curious as to how the figures from here and over there compare.
Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Never mind, worked it out
Can you share? Big smile
ty

Found the figures for the UK to compare. Deaths were taken from animal activist figures so likely higher, though in the UK they have a website which lists each of the horses with dates, tracks etc. For 2010 they had 145 deaths, which worked at 0.15% per starter (around 93,000 runners that year, exact figure is at work). 2011 was around the same mark.

In Australia the figure was 0.075% per starter for 2016, calculated off startersagain based off reported deaths (article wasn't sourced so imagine the figure came from either RSPCA or Animals Australia or the Coalition..) and racing australia reported starters (182k). 

That said, pretty sure jumps racing is bigger in the UK than here..  if you just look at that, the figure jumps to 0.64% per jumps starter for that Australian period.. so daresay that influences the higher overall figure over there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Originally posted by niki niki wrote:

Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Anyone know what the breakdown rates over in Europe are like compared to Australia? Wondering whether the raiders have been incredibly unlucky, or if its more common over there. I know a lot is said for firmer tracks over here but curious as to how the figures from here and over there compare.

Originally posted by StormSiren StormSiren wrote:

Never mind, worked it out
Can you share? Big smile
ty


Found the figures for the UK to compare. Deaths were taken from animal activist figures so likely higher, though in the UK they have a website which lists each of the horses with dates, tracks etc. For 2010 they had 145 deaths, which worked at 0.15% per starter (around 93,000 runners that year, exact figure is at work). 2011 was around the same mark.

In Australia the figure was 0.075% per starter for 2016, calculated off startersagain based off reported deaths (article wasn't sourced so imagine the figure came from either RSPCA or Animals Australia or the Coalition..) and racing australia reported starters (182k). 

That said, pretty sure jumps racing is bigger in the UK than here..  if you just look at that, the figure jumps to 0.64% per jumps starter for that Australian period.. so daresay that influences the higher overall figure over there.


Jumps racing is much bigger in the UK.

From now until April nearly all racing will be jumps racing...apart from a few all weather flat racing meetings (but becoming more significant)...there will be at least 2 or 3 jumps meetings a day and more at weekends.

There will be no more turf flat racing from around now until the new season starts at the end of March

Those figures may also include amateur point to point jumps meetings?
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Originally posted by anabel anabel wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

On Bowman riding a kg over:

When was the public informed? When could the public have been informed if an effort was made to inform them at the earliest opportunity.


This is a strange one, as his ride in the race before the Cup also had 55kgs, like Marmelo. So did he ride that one at 55? And if so, why not the next? When did they know he’d be over... surely he weighed out heavy prior to the race?


That has me confused too .  Dont the jocks weigh out before the race ?   And if so,,,how did he not register a K over then ??  Or didnt the blokes on the scales notice it ?  And if they didnt notice,,,,isnt that their fault ??   How could he weigh out correct, and then be a K over after ???Confused   Shocked
animals before people.
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Racing.com just said that A Prince Of Arran will be running in the G1 Hong Kong Vase
It's always good when a WA horse does well in the Eastern States or abroad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SkyDancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 10:21am
Originally posted by acacia alba acacia alba wrote:

Originally posted by anabel anabel wrote:

Originally posted by Tlazolteotl Tlazolteotl wrote:

On Bowman riding a kg over:

When was the public informed? When could the public have been informed if an effort was made to inform them at the earliest opportunity.


This is a strange one, as his ride in the race before the Cup also had 55kgs, like Marmelo. So did he ride that one at 55? And if so, why not the next? When did they know he’d be over... surely he weighed out heavy prior to the race?


That has me confused too .  Dont the jocks weigh out before the race ?   And if so,,,how did he not register a K over then ??  Or didnt the blokes on the scales notice it ?  And if they didnt notice,,,,isnt that their fault ??   How could he weigh out correct, and then be a K over after ???Confused   Shocked


He weighed out 1 hr before the race at 56.4 (1kg added for vest)
Weighed in after the race at 57.0. Was 600 grams over. Allowed to be max of 500 over.

Connections said the saddle soaked up water and sweat during the race and that was the likely reason.
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